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Life in Ambridge: Comments week of September 30, 2018
Life in Ambridge: Comments week of September 30, 2018
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Life in Ambridge
THIS POST IS CLOSED "longer off topic comments' - Episode 8 Life Outside Ambridge Beach Chairs
Morning Ruthy!
ReplyDeleteLove the photo. You are so good at picking fab, apt photos.
ReplyDeletePicking up on the last few comments on the earlier blog. I’m not reading a lot into the meeting up in London like some seem to be. It’ll be lovely just to put a face to the name and have a lovely lunch out.
This is not something I have ever done before, and I’m not very good at meeting new people.....the idea of sitting next to someone at, say, a wedding fills me with dread......but a few like minded archers fans that have been chatting together already (albeit virtually) meeting for lunch doesn’t seem an extreme thing to do.
We could see it as a Christmas get together.
Whoops. Just noticed I’ve put the above comment on the wrong blog. Sorry!!🤭
ReplyDeleteYou must spend so much time on our behalf in sourcing such apt headline pictures Ruthy.
ReplyDeleteWell one and thank you so much.
👍
DeleteI am finding it difficult to understand all the fuss and bother about the Flower and Produce Show this year (apart from being the SWs way of injecting a little humour and distraction into recent heavier story lines)
ReplyDeleteWe have a show like this in our village every year and it is more or less assumed that the same 3 or 4 residents will win all the vegetable/fruit categories; the church flower arranging rota ladies will will all the floral ones; the WI brigade will win the cakes and jam and the only real competition is amongst the children for their efforts at producing a miniature garden in a seed tray or the funniest decorated vegetable!
The year after we moved here, about 45 odd years ago, I had the temerity to enter my onions from our newly instigated vegetable plot - I won!! The comments from the old stagers about an ‘incomer’ and ‘a woman, to boot’ winning, rumbled on for weeks afterwards and I never dared enter anything again.
It is just accepted that the same folk will win every year, there is no discussion about competition or who is entering what, it is just an annual given.
Oh dear, I don't suggest you enter your onions in Ambridge - bound to put some backs up if you won there too!
DeletePerhaps you should suggest your local show opens a new category - Best Newcomer, perhaps. From what I've heard of village politics in some places, after only 45 years of residence you should still be well qualified to enter as a newcomer ; )
BTW What happens when the children grow too old for miniature gardens and funny vegetables? Are they allowed to enter the adult categories, on the strict understanding that they're not allowed actually to win, of course? Or are they quietly discouraged from entering until they are old enough to replace the previous champions who have finally decided that at 102 it's time to let some of the 'youngsters' have a chance?
I was pleased to see my favourite apple variety Laxton Superb in the local show. There was a good show of enormous vegetables in spite of the lack of rain. The show was in August.
DeleteOwiaS - loved your comments! By the time the children are adults and too old for the F&P most of them have moved away because they can’t afford to buy a house in the village !!
DeleteI jest, but it is true - just like Ambridge there are no affordable houses here so the residents just get older and older until they die and someone inherits thier Cottage 😢
Interesting to hear the politics of local flower and produce show. I guess politics exists in every aspect of our lives. I remember in one episode of Downton Abbey that the countess’ gardener always won because she always held the winning vote.
ReplyDeleteI listened to the omnibus this morning, which is my normal Sunday morning "habit". I enjoy this as I pick up on minor points, that have slipped past, in the week.
ReplyDeletePat, mentioned that, one person who needs to be told about the Bridge Farm decision, is Johnny. He will now be in charge of the new cow herd. But, does he know about this, has he agreed to it - as he doesn't seem to have been included in any of the farm discussions.I would have prefered a Tom/Johnny chat about this at No.1, which they share, rather than the Tom/Hannah "sex" interludes!!
I am not a prude, but why ....unless Hannah will use this against Tom, somehow, in the future.
Tom did speak to him, Miriam, probably the week before, certainly before they'd definitely decided to go ahead with the dairy herd, & Johnny was keen .
ReplyDeleteHe said something like "I'm up for it" and then dashed off to do something else. He's a busy lad, no time for long conversations. I agree with you Miriam that a chat about it at home or at the pub would have been the usual way. Johnny's not a partner in the business so wouldn't expect to be at a formal meeting.
DeleteJohnny liked Ed's herd and was disappointed that Bridge Farm had sold the dairy herd.
My son in law entered the the Flower and Produce show in his local village in his first season of growing and got a handful of prizes. There was no antagonism from the established competitors, in fact they said they were pleased to see new blood.
ReplyDeleteIf it is going to be a 400 mile round trip for Elizabeth I would think that possibly Freddie is somewhere in the South West of the Country.
ReplyDeleteOr north east, or the far end of Kent would just about do it.
DeleteI looked at a list of Young Offenders' Institutions, and couldn't find one that fitted. There aren't many, and those in England and Wales aren't far enough away, while those in Scotland are too far away. I suppose there may be prisons with a YO annex, or something, but I suspect that Freddie is to be incarcerated in an institution that doesn't actually exist, to avoid controversy.
Delete.....so it's ok for a PC to arrest a teenager for dealing & using for about a year, but not if he's caught on the first known offence. Great logic, great morality, Kenton.
ReplyDeleteI thought the judge that handed Freddie’s sentence was not inpartial. Saying something like the money and previlage was the worst.
ReplyDeleteI thought it good and relevant that the script writers had Kenton mention the County lines. There has just been an article in our local newspaper that the Newquay police are trying to break, or at least disrupt, the line down to Cornwall. It is infuriating that those high up in the supply and sale chain (and of course those are the ones making the most money out of others misery), are sending people down to persuade and use kids in rural areas simply to open up new markets.
ReplyDeleteAs with the Coercive Control issue, this was also dealt with in Countryfile yesterday.
DeleteWe don't have a television, but I will try to find it on the iPlayer to watch.
DeleteFreddie has certainly been very stupid and I didn't have much sympathy for him, nor for some of his family who seemed to feel they should be treated preferentially by the justice system. However, he was clearly depressed in the run-up to his sentencing and I do now fear for him. Mental-health problems are a serious issue for young people and the incidence in YOIs is very high (I've seen figures of 81%). I hope we are now going to see story lines that deal sensitively with the issue of mental health and the difficulties of obtaining prompt and effective treatment. Is it one in four of the population who will suffer at some time in their lives? And it's some time since TA dealt with mental health in any depth. The most serious was probably the suicide of Helen's former partner Greg and I think she has had problems herself with anorexia. I think it's good that serious issues can be dealt with, along with a bit of light relief with llamas and the flower and produce show!
ReplyDeleteFreddie should be asked during his induction about his state of mind and whether he's ever had suicidal thoughts. He'll probably say he's fine. Being cooped-up in a cell for long periods isn't healthy for mind or body. They can be in a cell for up to 21 hours in a day.
DeleteSome other "informal courses" in a YOI. Inflicting as much pain as possible in the shortest time before warders stop a fight. Starting a fire in cell using bits of fluff as fuel.
We must hope that our new editor deals sensitively with problems that Freddie may encounter when confined.
DeleteIf indeed the new editor is in place.
Maryellen ?
Agree it was good to hear ' county Lines' given a mention. Will we hear more ?
Yes, Mrs P, there's an item on the BBC Archers blog dated 23 August featuring Jeremy's first day in post with a photo of him looking simultaneously relaxed and enthusiastic!
DeleteWe have had problems with 'county lines' for many months now here in North Kent and sadly have had several stabbings and fatalities connected with gang fall outs. Being only one hour out from London makes it 'an evening out' for these dealers and feral youths.
DeleteThe new editor is not yet being credited with an input to production of TA. Up till 12th October Cast list it is still Alison Hindell who is editor. The past two editors took over their post in the Autumn after about three months joining in and the first 'solo' episodes were broadcast after Christmas each time so we may have a couple of months still to go!
Keri Davies (long term scriptwriter) once wrote - 6 months to broadcast the storylines are fine-tuned , 3 months - scripts written - 4-6 weeks - episode recorded. So if the new editor started at the end of August his own 'take' on what should be going on in Ambridge will not be apparent until after the New Year!
Roll on January 2019 then, Spicy!
DeleteDo see everyone's misgivings about Freddie's fate in the YOI, & that it could be a dramatic intention to highlight the desperate situation in our prisons. All being equal, it could be the making of him, but they aren't. Also noted that the judge emphasized the word ''privileged' in a very particular manner, it sounded bitter, accusatory, yet she gave valid reasons for making the point - that he wasn't doing it from need for cash, growing up in a disadvantaged, alienated way, where using & dealing were part of the culture, in term of getting money (dealing) &/or escaping misery ( using). He had no mitigating circumstances, which is not to say she wouldn't have sentenced a disadvantaged youth similarly, but perhaps more in the spirit of compassion, that training, regular routines might help long term rather than merely punish. She must know about the conditions obtaining, but can only operate in good faith, with what purports to be available.
ReplyDeleteI don't count losing a father at an early age as a mitigating factor, not to dismiss the loss, but it does not lead automatically to criminal activity.
DeleteJudge has sentencing guidelines laid down from above.
DeleteRe your 2nd last sentence in 1st post. Among the articles I read on YOIs were tales of:
a boy setting fire to his cell a few days before he was due to be released, very likely done to put off the early release;
a boy who was released and as soon as he was outside he smashed car windows so that he would be immediately arrested;
a young man asking on his readmittance if he could continue the plumbing course which he'd started during his first stay.
Some inmates appreciate the routine and discipline which were lacking in their outside lives.
I'm relieved that Freddie is not real and that I'm not Elizabeth.
I agree with both your posts Carolyn.
DeleteRe tonight's episode. Why do affairs in Ambridge have to be secret? What's wrong with Johnny finding out? It was a bit funny though. I almost wrote affaires as if it was French. I doubt Charles Aznavour would have considered Hannah as a subject for a romantic song.
ReplyDeleteJohnny is upset now because he thinks his housemates have fallen-out. And he was so excited about the new cows.
I have to add that though Freddie occasionally used drugs/smoke weed in the past, it wasn't out of control with selling/dealing until Nolathando encouraged him to sell the mushroom and it just got worse from then on. Not to say that it was all Nolathando's fault, but I wonder if it wouldn't have happened without that initial experience.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely - she definitely started it, but, on the other hand, knew when to stop, where Freddie didn't
DeleteOh dear, afraid I’m already tiring of the shenanigans between Tom and Hannah. I know I’m old fashioned but I’d prefer a bit of genuine romance rather than this “wham, bang, thankyou ma’am” type of activity.
ReplyDeleteAnd I’m afraid I didn’t find the hiding from Johnny at all funny, especially after he was so delighted at being allowed to choose his new herd and wanted to share his exciting news with Tom.
I don’t find Hannah a likeable new character at all and wish she could be dispensed with ASAP!
Couldn't agree more, Archerphile. Was the French farce aspect of Tom and Hannah's 'encounter' meant to be funny? Hannah is shallow and sad, and Tom becomes ever more unworthy of Kirsty.
DeleteI do agree with you Archerphile. I also must be old-fashioned as I'd prefer to hear something romantic rather than scrabbling around for clothes after 'the act'. Not amusing to my ears and I don't care for Hannah either. Why the deception? just tell Johnny what's going on. He's going to find out anyway.
ReplyDeleteAgree with all three posts immediately above.
ReplyDeleteDreadful young woman, lost and confused Tom, and Johnny unable to trust either of them.
Did I hear that Ellis was busted? Who said that Freddie and Ellis will end up in the same jail? Good call.
ReplyDeleteGary did. Hopefully Ellis will be sent 200 miles in the opposite direction. There will be others like Ellis where Freddie is though.
DeleteHH -,good point.
DeleteThe Tom+Hannah epidose reminded by of Moliere (picking up on bootgum's French reference), contrived but still funny. I thought the tickling reference was rather a sweet and delicate introduction to the situation and something I imagine most listeners can relate to. To be honest, Mrs P, I feel your description of a lost and confused young woman applies to Kirsty rather than Hannah (except Kirsty is no longer young) - Hannah is quite the opposite, and a tendency to aggressiveness apart, I find her refreshing.
ReplyDeleteHannah refreshing?
DeleteI think she is as refreshing as a wet flannel.
She has made it to the top of my list of people I do not care for in The Archers.
She is worse than Lexi.
Dreadful woman.
A wet flannel can be very refreshing, LanJan! And Hannah's honesty and upfrontness, even if it does spill over into assertiveness at times,appeals to me a lot. She is quick to apologise when she realises she got it wrong, too. And I don't hear anyone calling Susan and Neil sex mad when Susan refers to chilli, nudge, nudge, but it's clear their Tom-and-Hannah days (Neil married her when she got pregnant) aren't over.
DeleteMaryellen- lost and confused was referring to Tom, not Hannah.
DeleteOh No ! Hannah knows precisely what she is up to, I think.
Kirsty is 37 – not Lily-young, but still young. Hannah is probably about 30, as she came to Bridge Farm as a student 10 years ago.
DeleteWhen Susan got pregnant, she and Neil were 'courting', as we used to say. Tom and Hannah are just [insert the word of your choice]ing to fill in spare time.
Youth is relative of course, and so is 'courting'. Kirsty is pushing 40 and middle aged in today's average lifespan, and in an earlier pre-contraception era, a sensible woman got some assurance of permanence before enjoying sex.
DeleteWell, Kirsty is probably approaching the midpoint of her life, but she's not middle-aged. There's childhood, youth, middle age and old age, about 20 years each, and growing. Adulthood now seems to start at 25, no one thinks they're middle-aged when they reach 40 (though some of their contemporaries may be), and the old age pension doesn't start till (currently) about 65.
DeleteI wonder what Hannah's reaction would be if Tom made the first move.
ReplyDeleteMust admit to finding the bedroom farce quite funny in a sniggering sort of way - decidedly more Whitehall than french (anyone else remember BrianRix drop-his-trousers-every-show?) Rather more bearable to listen to than Lil & JE when they had their seaside postcard romp
ReplyDeleteThat aside, much prefer Lil to Hannah, who seems thrillingly different to Tom, liberating perhaps, but who is, underneath the banter coldly calculating.Does 'Chad' even exist ? We'll find out eventually on both counts, but meanwhile, we're definitely expected to see two sides to this character.
Like others, puzzled by the silly concealment, especially from Johnny, their housemate. Clumsy writing, not convincing.
I see that Carolyn views Hannah in the same light as me.
DeleteYes Carolyn cold and calculating under the brash front.
I don’t find it funny and I don’t like the way it is Hannah who is controlling it all. I think she wants to keep it a secret because she will just drop Tom when she’s bored and insist there was nothing in it. I find the fact that Tom is going along with it unconvincing, and their treatment of Johnny patronising and hurtful but I am probably taking it all too seriously.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure you're right about Hannah - she uses people. When the penny drops with Johnny, won't he be amused more than anything else ? As for Tom, whilst he doesn't see through Hannah, well, he wouldn't, would he, not very clued up about himself, let alone others, he sees her as light relief from the angst & muddles with women that he's generated for himself in the past ?
DeleteI don't find it funny either,Seasider .
DeleteI think it is nauseating
Hannah is obviously sex mad and Tom won't say no if it is handed on a plate to him.
It isn't as if Tom is a teenager either.I could understand his behaviour better if he were Johnny's age..
I agree the scriptwriters did Johnny a disservice, having him bursting into the house like a little boy wanting to talk about his new toy. We know he's not the brightest button in the box but that was unkind.
ReplyDeleteAnd unconvincing that they would all go back there at lunchtime and that Johnny knew they were there. I suppose that’s how farce works though.
DeleteTom had finished planting mizuna and was half way through with bok-choy when he was interrupted, I don't think either of them had anything to eat for lunch. Johnny was excited about cows but Tom was dealing with one (Emma's words) upstairs.
Delete😀✓✓
DeleteSurely Johnnie would realise what was going on. He is grown up after all!
DeleteWell, quite - he'd take it in his stride (has done the 😉& nod to Tom often about his hankering after Natasha)
Delete😄🐄, Basia.
DeleteIf Johnny twigs, he might conclude that Tom and Hannah are now an item rather than just messing around.
But please, please, not another accidental pregnancy.
If ever Natasha ever reciprocates Tom's affection, I wonder what she will make of his willingness to jump into bed with Hannah whilst professing to fancy Natasha? Hannah seems to think they can continue to be flatmates with benefits even when/if either of them starts going out with someone else.
DeleteNot sure Natasha would view such an arrangement as conducive to a longterm relationship.
On the plus side, we've already had a couple of accidental pregnancy storylines recently, plus a scare for Phoebe, I think the scriptwriters will have the creativity to come up with something different this time. (At least, I hope they will.)
Heart warming scene between Grandad & Johnny. Positive family relationship for a change. Tony has confidence in grandson's abilities & flair, Johnny has the encouragement he needs, & genuine affection there without sentimentality. J. has plenty of common sense generally, & what I like most is his humility - often an underrated quality.
ReplyDelete✔️✔️
DeleteAlso ✔️✔️
DeleteAn alternative view is that should Johnny want to spread his wings at any point in his career (not that he has shown signs of seeking wider horizons, but you never know) Tony has effectively clipped them, with his emphasis on the permancy of Johnny's job at Bridge Farm and the implication that Johnny was destined to be Bridge Farm's nearest possible replacement for John. Maybe Johnny will be happy with tha for the next 50 years. Will he become a fellow Director? Maybe not.
ReplyDeleteNo different from the Phil, David, Pip generational handover, then. Farming families sound a bit like the aristocracy - not invariably, but usually some family member(s) to carry on the tradition.
DeleteIn Johnny's case, if he decides to remain forever, I assume he'd take over as the patriarch when Tom & Helen retire. Eldest of his generation.
But not the legitimate heir, that's Henry or Jack, should either of them want to farm, and there are Tom's putative children.
DeleteNot sure they're bothered about legitimacy, not being royals/aristos.
DeleteI think Helen might be.
DeleteShe sure acts like it. But for now, it is a family affair and large decisions are voted on. Why doesn't Johnny gets to sit in these family meetings? Isn't he family?
DeleteHe is, but still a student. I guess they have to allow for the fact that he might go back to his parents ( Leeds?) or choose to find work elsewhere, but now he's been offered, & has accepted, more responsibility, that may change.
DeleteYes, Maryellen, Helen could well ! Though conceived in marital rape, I suppose Jack counts as legitimate, goodness knows what Henry's position is legally.
Helen and Rob were married when Jack was born. His conception is irrelevant to his legitimacy. How many of us know how we were conceived? I assume Henry's legal position is clearly defined, just needs googling.
DeleteRuthy, re Johnny not being included in decision-making meetings. Tony, Pat, Helen and Tom are partners in Bridge Farm. Johnny is an apprentice. He's paid a wage. Tony explained the farm apprentice scheme to Johnny's mother, Sharon when Johnny decided he wanted a farming career. Sharon wanted him to stay on at school or go to 6th form college. The farming apprenticeship scheme satisfied mother & son. Tom's position was similar when he left school. He met Kirsty at college; she was also studying agriculture. Kirsty knows one end of a cow from another.
DeleteNeil Carter began as a 16-year-old apprentice at Brookfield.
A trade apprenticeship lasted 7 years in the past. Apprentices weren't paid much. There is now a Modern Apprenticeship scheme set up by the government.
Johnny is a real "hands on" member of the Home Farm enviroment. He is dyslexic, but certainly not simple nor a "mis-fit". This type of person is very good at practical work,and this is what Johnny excels at. Thanks to Brian + Jennifer, he has found his true vocation, and long may it continue.
ReplyDeleteWell if Lily wants to clap when she goes to meetings at Manchester University she won't be able to because the students have decided that clapping might upset some students.
ReplyDeleteYes, it's hands up now, though they stressed that clapping is still allowed.
DeleteI am logging on at about 10.30 and can’t believe there are apparently no comments about tonight’s very upsetting episode . Perhaps there is something wrong with my iPad but the last comment is from LanJan at 7.07
ReplyDeleteDid nobody listen to Elizabeth's awful experience of visiting Freddie at the YOI?
Or hear the gossip about Freddie’s dealing flying around Brookfield to everyone’s horror, especially Jill’s, who sounded more hysterical than ever!
I found it very hard listening and I can’t believe no one else was moved enough to comment. The Archers became very dark tonight after the farcical humour of Tom and Hannah. What a contrast!
Archerphile I have only just listened to tonight’s episode and I agree a very serious one- yet well researched and written. I was totally gripped and drained by the end of it. Ellis is obviously going there too or is he there already and is it he that Freddie is now sharing a cell with and who gave him the black eye?
ReplyDeleteCan imagine how E feels but intervention may well make things worse for F. This experience will certainly leave its mark and F will think more carefully in future of the possible consequences of his actions a lesson being learnt the hard way.
I also thought the blog would be flooded with comments but so far just you and me 🤔
Glad to be able to comment I have spent a lot of the last day or so trying to get posts to print. The orange B would just not show. Don’t even really know what I did do but hey I’m back. Have been keeping up reading comments though🤗
DeleteI agree it was an upsetting episode. Felt for E and for F. Also not sure that E's intervention will help matters for F. His sentence is intended to be a punishment after all so would the authorities agree to transfer him to suit his family? No doubt he's already come up against some tough customers in that place resulting in the black eye. No wonder Jill doesn't want to celebrate her birthday.
ReplyDeleteOther places will be no better.
DeleteBeing closer to home would be better, though that would affect Elizabeth more than Freddie.
DeleteI have just listened to tonight's episode.
ReplyDeleteThe Archers team do seem to be taking it seriously and at least one member of the family, Ruth, seems to have a grip on reality.
Very well acted from both F and E in their scene together, and later, again Elizabeth in despair and anger, but not in the world of reality.
I was moved. I'm not sure whether Elizabeth should write to the person in charge. On the whole I think she should, but she should be very careful not to sound hysterical, as it would be very easy for the powers that be to dismiss her concerns as those of an inevitably anxious parent struggling to come to terms with her son's incarceration. She could point out that the YOI should be able to protect its inmates. They're to be punished, and hopefully rehabilitated, but not to be beaten up.
ReplyDeleteI do hope that Ellis isn't at the same unit.
We learnt that Leeds is two-thirds of the way to Freddie's YOI. I think that puts it somewhere around Middlesbrough/Darlington/Barnard Castle. Possibly.
I think it could become even darker and harder to listen to when Ellis arrives, but despite finding it upsetting I am glad the BBC are telling it like it is. Freddie's best hope, if he survives, is to go to South Africa when he comes out because he will come under pressure from suppliers inside the YOI who will find him when out and expect him to sell for them. They will think he has access to wealthy friends who can afford to pay well.
ReplyDeleteI know it’s upsetting for Elizabeth but it’s about time she realised that Freddie has been a very naughty boy and has to pay the consequences. Any interferrance from her will make things twice as hard for Freddie.
ReplyDeleteI think Freddie ought to man up too. You’ve got to stand up to bullies.....he should have turned round and given the other fella a black eye too then they’d leave F alone
Not since the days of Sean O'Connor have we had such an intelligent, well-written, well- acted episode. It demanded serious listening. I could have done without Jill, who didn't seem to be quite with it, but everyone else was spot on - and maybe Jill's' twittering was a valid reaction too. It's good to know TA can still pull it off.
ReplyDelete✔️✔️✔️
DeleteWith everyone about this hard hitting episode. The characters true to themselves, but grim realities not whitewashed.
ReplyDeleteLike Mrs P, found Ruth the most sensible of them all, Jill & Josh true to type, the former flapping, the latter quite excited by the social media flurry.
A dreadful, helpless situation for any mother, &, as Bootgums says, not a bad idea to write( if only for her to feel she's doing something) so long as she isn't hysterical. Unlikely to do any good, as whilst they do have a duty of care, dire conditions obtaining, they can't fulfill that duty.
Odd that during the long journey there & back, E. didn't break down & reveal to David what is going on with Lily.Even he, not acute in that way, picked up that something was wrong.
✔️
DeleteOh, thank goodness for this blog and some sensitive, thoughtful comments! I've just come from another 'Archers' on-line forum which (at the moment) is littered with so many harsh, unsympathetic remarks re. Elizabeth/Freddie etc. from the 'lock them up and throw away the key' mindset that I was quite appalled. Yes, drug dealing is a lamentable crime, agreed, but just how useful and effective are Young Offenders Institutions, I wonder at rehabilitation/humane care etc. I've been reading a report that claims there are unacceptable levels of violence, and that three quarters of offenders re-offend on release. I do hope the SW team have researched these issues and are going to present a balanced, responsible picture of this issue. Poor Elizabeth--of course she's devastated--it's her son, he's not, it seems, in a safe place, and most mothers care for their sons, whatever they've done wrong.
ReplyDeleteNemo - that’s why I am on this blog and not those others that are available.
DeleteRuthy - thank you again for giving us this opportunity.
DeleteElizabeth has gone from having two she is proud of to having one incarcerated and the other cohabiting with a much older married man and in a very short time. We had various difficulties with my stepdaughters and daughter in their teens and early twenties and my husband’s brother had 6 children who all sailed through this period but in the last 3 or 4 years they too have had huge problems with 3 broken marriages and so on. It is odd how these things suddenly happen and you wonder whether any parents get a clear run throughout. Elizabeth must feel as if she has gone 10 rounds with Mohammed Ali as she has been so battered. Hopefully Freddie’s plight will highlight the difficulties of YOI’s in the actual world as Helen’s did about controlling spouses.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what other's have posted about last evening's episode.
ReplyDeleteI really felt for Elizabeth and thought her acting was exactly right.
I also thought back to what the judge said about Freddie's background.
She may have put it badly but to some extent I can see what she was saying.
A teenager from a poor background,possibly with a limited IQ , several siblings and maybe with parents (or only one parent ) who are not able to care properly for their children because of lack of money or other reasons could see drug dealing as a way out .
Freddie had no need to sell drugs to make money.
It seems to me that he was being bullied because of his posh accent .
He is not very bright and maybe he saw it as a way of being accepted by his peers.
I think the judge should have hit upon that fact.
Too late now though
How does she manage to burst into tears so convincingly? She must really live the part. Much applause due!
DeleteAlison Dowling screams convincingly as well. She provides screams for some horror films. It's one of her talents.
DeleteI am very relieved to read comments about last nights events this morning.
ReplyDeleteAs you know, I listen to each day’s episode late at night (in bed) via BBC catch-up, then log in here to read and add to the comments. So I am usually a bit behind the crowd, as it were.
I was amazed that nobody else had commented by 10.45 last night, after such a hard hitting episode which was not only brilliantly written and acted but such a huge contrast to one with Hannah and Tom.
All the references to Ellis appear to signal that he will be able to get at Freddie, but he could well be sent to another YOI (and so far he has only been charged, not yet stood trial, found guilty or sentenced) so perhaps we need not worry about that just yet.
I can’t see that Elizabeth writing to ´the authorities’ can do much good and she would probably be wise to leave Freddie to find his own way through the danger he is in by keeping his head down, not causing any trouble and keeping himself to himself whilst in the YOI. You could tell last night that he was trying to keep a low profile and not wanting Eluzabeth to fuss over him.
Oh, what a dilemma poor Elizabeth is in and now she will also have to cope with the whole family, and the whole village, knowing that her son was not a one-off drug dealer, unlucky to be caught on his first offence, but a persistant pusher who sold drugs many times and in many places.
So many well written comments about last nights episode. The one thing I can add is if that happened to me, I would be as devastated as Elizabeth. When you think how Freddie got to the point of getting arrested, and think that if only he and Lily didn’t have the pact to keep each other’s secret from Mom, and Lily did tell E that F was dealing, would he be where he is now. Very sad story as Freddie will not be rehabilitated locked up but will just be bitter when he gets out.
ReplyDeleteThere's a clip on the BBC News website of a young ex-offender who turned his life around after being sentenced to 28 months for possessing with intent to supply. Some parallels with Freddie, as, though not downright posh, he was from a comfortable middle-class family. In detention he met someone who had had a much tougher life, and realised that, in comparison, he had no excuse. His parents helped him through it, and now he helps ex-offenders to get into employment. In one respect he is luckier than Freddie: he's academically more able. Freddie always seemed a bit of a fish out of water: struggling academically at college, but being ragged for being posh, so not really having any position in the pecking order, and without Lily's confidence.
ReplyDeleteHave heard stories like that, which are heartening. In your example, being academically able probably gave the young man the confidence to speak
Deleteeffectively & convincingly to others, & do some good, but Freddie has shown little common sense throughout, & has had a sheltered life, despite the appalling loss of a parent. Johnny, in contrast,
...., not academically inclined, but far from stupid, with abundant common sense. Hopefully, Freddie will become streetwise ( think that's already happening, actually) & will learn useful stuff, toughen up, may even develop a clearer idea of what he might do in the future, as well as a sense of responsibility.
DeleteEasy for an outsider, not at all for Elizabeth, seeing her boy with a black eye, living in fear.
Johnny was born to a single mother (Sharon) who had come to notice of social services when she had her first baby. Father of her 1st child was Clive Horrobin, who turned into a violent criminal. Sharon had courage to banish Clive from her life, the good fortune to have support from Susan, Mrs. P. and Pat + a good stepfather for her children and the determination that her children were going to have a much better life than she had. Without all that, Johnny might be where Freddie is now.
DeleteJust catching up with all this as I was out last night and this morning. Agree the episode was impressive and thought provoking, clearly by the number of comments.
ReplyDeleteI noticed yesterday morning a headline in the news about addressing the issue of “middle class drug dealers “ and how it’s an increasing problem.
Bootgums I noticed the reference to the geography of the YOI. I believe there is a real one in the Stockton area ie just where you placed it, but of course this is fiction and it could be anywhere. I do think the Stockton place has been in the news as having problems with the running of it but of course it is an issue nationally, especially with cuts in staffing/resources.
I do hope Freddie and Ellis are not going to encounter each other again on either side of prison but I fear that would be too unlikely.
If Freddie and Ellis end up in the same facility, which will be very far fetched, I will have to take a break form TA. Do we know how old Ellis is? I thought he might be at least a few years older than Freddie.
DeleteI assumed they were a similar age because it’s a further education college which is usually for 16-18 year olds, however I am not up to speed with current college set ups. Maybe he is a mature student and would be sent to an adult prison.
DeleteDid Freddie's revised statement mention that he'd tried to pull out of the drug dealing but that Ellis had put pressure on him to continue? If so, the courts will be aware that he is still potentially at risk from Ellis. Wouldn't there then be a duty of care to ensure that they are kept apart whilst inside? Common sense would suggest a completely different unit to minimise the chance of Ellis getting at Freddie via other inmates.
DeleteOf course, it's possible that Ellis will be shown to be controlling a larger operation than just Freddie. Perhaps his crimes will be judged too severe for a Young Offenders unit and he'll be sent to an adult prison. Whether that would be beneficial in reforming his character is open to question but it would at least keep him away from Freddie.
If Ellis is under 21 he'll be sent to a YOI. That's assuming he's convicted. We've already convicted him. It reminds me of when I was called for jury service but not chosen for the jury. It was just as well I wasn't on the jury. The defendant was a young man who had robbed a shop at knifepoint. As soon as he appeared in the dock I decided he was guilty. He was a skinny, weedy youth, probably a drug-addict. I was appalled at my reaction.
DeleteEllis may have been controlling more people than just F. Ellis in turn was probably controlled by someone else.
There are murderers in YOIs. They attend classes with the rest.
I thought that glyphosate was on the way out, probably by 2020.
ReplyDeleteJennifer's name was called out a number of times tonight but she was not heard.
Christine can't afford to go to The Laurels, what will happen to her? Peggy said she'd look after her, she was selling shares which may come in useful although she was thinking of saving Home Farm.
I think she was, before Christine's fall.
DeletePeggy seems to have a bottomless piggy-bank. Brian introduced her to his financial advisor a few years ago because the one she'd been with for years wasn't doing very well.
DeleteI can't remember which of the ladies ordered the pot of tea for the three of them -Possibly Peggy -but surely nobody would order Earl Grey would they unless the other two ladies drink that?
ReplyDeleteThe only tea worse than Earl Grey in my opinion is Rooibos.
😁I'm with you there !
DeleteSorry LanJan, I like Earl Grey - 'though I drink it with milk which apparently is wrong. But I share your opinion on Rooibos.
DeleteI love Earl Grey and also put a little milk in it. A beautiful cuppa!
DeleteI enjoy both. I've recently stopped adding sugar. Earl Grey tasted better with a bit of sugar. That trio should know each other's likes & dislikes by now, they've had 60+ years to learn.
DeleteAgreed LanJan - I can't stand either. Rooibos is supposed to be "good for you". Anything unattractive to eat is always supposed to be good for you - or anything nice is always thought to be bad for you.
DeleteYes! The modern puritanism. On the other hand, it's pleasing when what is good for you is also tasty - green veg, fresh salad, minus dressings, &, oh, coconut oil, which is actually nice spread on toast(bad) instead of butter ...whoops, rambling here, on the wrong blog, too.
DeleteMrs FOSO would certainly disagree about salad! - although I like it.
DeleteI rather think it will all change about Peggy, Christine and The Lodge (not forgetting Hilda the awful pusscat).
ReplyDeleteMy initial thoughts are that Peggy will start to think that she is also a vunerable senior person. As such, she will sell The Lodge, give the proceeds to Brian + Jennifer, to save Home Farm and move in. I am not sure what Christine's future will be...as to Hilda, her future is also debatable
You could be spot on, Miriam, much as it would be a crying shame if Christine were to be sacrificed to save Home Farm. Such a lovely character, saying the right things to Fallon who's becoming so paranoid, poor girl.
DeleteMakes a lot of sense, Miriam. It will be interesting to see how the story line develops.
DeleteIt does look as if the character of Christine is bowing out, a shame as she's always been a pleasant, benign presence. Maybe the actress, Lesley Saweard, wants to take a well earned rest; she's 84 and has been playing the part since 1953. In fact, she's listed as the longest serving soap actor in the world!
DeleteHey, perhaps both Peggy & Chris could move into Home Farm, & Kate, who's still lurking around might earn a few pennies doing some useful caring, keeping Hilda fed & away from Brian, having thrown in the towel with her yurts, because no family member will clean them for her, & custom has dwindled to nothing.
ReplyDeleteOn swift 2nd thoughts, I wouldn't wish Kate as a carer on anyone - Chris & Peggy surely don't deserve that...
we know that Kate cleans the yurts herself.
DeleteI bet Hilda gets the blame, but Christine had a bit of a wobble in the tearoom earlier.
ReplyDeleteI'm afraid I immediately blamed the fractious feline. But you're right, Christine did have a wobble in the tea room. Wobbly woman, persistent puss, plates of pastries and a tray of teacups - a disaster waiting to happen really.
DeleteTee-hee-hee!
DeleteI think we all saw it coming as soon as she insisted on collecting the tea, trailed by Hilda.
DeleteAre we about to say goodbye to. Christine?
ReplyDeleteMy thought too Maryellen.
DeleteA broken hip often leads to the end.
Though we don't yet know the damage, only that Fallon called an ambulance.
We might get a storyline about infection rates in hospitals leading to death?
DeleteYes Maryellen, we are thinking along the same lines.
DeleteChristine has been an occasional character in TA for a very long time now, and like Peggy and Jill, getting on in life. She might well feel that it's all become too much for her and wants to ' retire'.
I missed the discussion about the excellent episode about Freddy. Just as a footnote, there are 10 YOIs in the UK with around the same number of YOI sections within HMPs. Therefore, I'd say the chance of Ellis ending up in the same place is small, but quite possible. Although we think the courts might take in account the relationship between Freddy and Ellis, I'd be surprised if this relationship wouldn't effect the placement. I say that because state systems tend to be lacking in any commonsense, and some events seem to happen in a rather ill considered way. Anyhow, it seems a good way to pile on the agony a bit longer, so could the SWs resist?
ReplyDeleteReplying to myself: perhaps the SWs are happy to see two characters disappear for a while so they can spend the budget elsewhere.
DeleteWe had all the "concerns" about Christine & her health a few weeks/months back! Wasn't it regarding if she had dementia or not & it turned out to be a urine infection or something like that?
ReplyDeleteYes,a urine infection
DeleteIf Peggy and Christine move into Home Farm with Jennifer and Brian.
ReplyDeleteand Peggy coughs up some of the money to them that she makes by selling The Lodge to Emma and Ed for a discounted price (provided Emma becomes a Carer to Christine and Cleaner to Jennifer,) all will be well.
Does Home Farm have two downstairs rooms, with bathroom facilities, to accomodate both Peggy plus Christine.
DeleteIt could be a logistic problem.
It was a heart-warming ending.
ReplyDelete✓✓ Not before time, & showing that Kenton is basically a decent man, if impetuous at times. Jolene will be relieved.
DeleteI wonder how Oliver's Tuscany villa is progressing - can he now sell it, buy The Lodge, so that Peggy + Christine, can then relocate. I am not sure about Hilda O. 😺😺though.
ReplyDeleteI'm so pleased that Kenton and Fallon are getting on .to the same page. I do think they are both right given what Freddie has done
ReplyDeleteHe really needed a sharp shock - it should, and could, have been Nolliel's near death experience. The lad went on with the dealing after that and has lost a great deal of my support.
I didn't get the feeling that he had to, but that, he wanted to.
BUT I do get the feeling that he's a decent, like his dad, person and putting him in a young offenders' institution is SO counter productive.
Horribly I suspect that it's what we're going to see. It's so obvious that any teenager is not going to survive this experience intact - not the middle class lad nor the one from social housing.
Rory Stewart please do what you have promised with prisons
Pleased to hear Fallon and Kenton reconciling with Kenton acknowledging that he was wrong about the whole thing.
ReplyDeleteCould have done without another episode of 'wham bam thank you mam' courtesy of Hannah and Tom though!
Should it not be Hannah who says "thank-you"? Tom had a manners deficit, leaping out of bed to phone Natasha. It was odd, T & H discussing Natasha and the other man Hannah has been seeing. Tom needs to increase his zinc intake.
DeleteWhy did Jazzer think he'd offended Hannah?
Why do the scriptwriters feel they have to lead us up to any calamity?
ReplyDeleteWe knew from more or less the start of Wednesday's episode that Christine was going to have an accident and as soon as we heard Hilda meowing we knew who would be the cause of the accident.
Similarly when Hannah and Tom started their bit of hanky panky we knew they were going to be interrupted both times.
Yes, I agree Lajan, the SWs do seem to signal upcoming events very heavily, as if we are not astute enough to work things out for ourselves and be able to ‘see the bl...ing obvious”. I know they have to advance stories, and this one presumably involves the future of Christine and Peggy (and that wretched cat!) but really, it was a bit heavy handed.
DeleteAs for Tom/Hannah - I have had enough!
Listening to this pair is more likely to make me switch off the radio than Helen and Rob ever were. Their story was dramatic, well written and served a purpose, even if uncomfortable to listen to - this story is just tacky, unecessary and unpleasant to overhear.
Unfortunately it seems to be the modern way LanJan, not so easy to skip as in a book, I hate it too.
DeleteIt’s tacky and boring!😝😖👹
DeleteI suppose the tom and Hannah shenanigans are leading up to something but I can't imagine what that could be that would justify having to listen to it all.
DeleteTom is putty in Hanna's hands, she told him to ring Natasha and he almost did when she said not straight away. I think Jazzer put two and two together seeing her in a dressing gown at lunch time, still don't know what the flowers were for.
DeleteWell, I like to hear the youngsters enjoying sex - and it could hardly be more understated. Let's face it, they don't have much time left to enjoy it, because these days no couple in Ambridge has sex over the age of 40, apart from Neil and Susan ( nudge nudge wink wink) and Lilian and Justin (nudge nudge, wink wink) . Is it because they are British or something in the Am?
DeleteMaryellen, you were right about the idea of Home Farm going back to flats.
ReplyDeleteBasia - it makes sense (the Hollowtree farmhouse was converted into flats) and the Aldridges could buy the one that gets the kitchen! But I suspect the scriptwriters are just using it to pile on the agony for Jenny and tug at our heartstrings
Delete.
I'm a bit confused, Brian and Jennifer drove to the Dower House, I thought Lilian ran from there to Home farm in Justin's wellies and her fur coat or did she drive?
ReplyDeleteLilian called a taxi and waited outside in her fur coat.
DeleteLilian running in wellies? Not advisable at her age. Wellies are not the best running-footwear at any age.
DeleteThank you Ruthy, I wish I had a map.
DeleteLooking at some of the comments above and elsewhere - I don't think Peggy is a multi millionaire and I'm pretty sure that The Lodge doesn't belong to her but left to her use for her lifetime. then it goes to Hazel.
ReplyDeletePeggy has only ever owned one property at a time. First The Bull, then Blossom Hill Cottage, then moved into Grey Gables when she married Jack Woolley then they moved to The Lodge which Jack bought when he retired.So all her money comes from the sale of Blossom Hill Cottage all those years ago and the money invested.. However how come she didn't suffer during the various 'crashes' over the past twenty years?
I thought most of Peggy's money came from sale of The Bull. Blossom Hill Cottage belonged to Lilian, Peggy only rented it according to "The Book of The Archers". Peggy now owns The Lodge. Helen was to inherit The Lodge according to the will Peggy made after Jack's death. Tom was to have been main cash beneficiary. Then Peggy made a new will after Tony's accident, leaving her assets to Jennifer, Lilian and Tony.
DeleteJack Woolley left Hazel Keeper's Cottage (now rented by Dr. Richard Locke) and the village shop and flat above + other assets. There was less than she had been expecting and probably suspected Peggy of concealing some. Peggy explained that a lot of it had been spent on Jack's care.
Jack & Peggy must have had a good financial advisor for many years. She was concerned about her investments a few years ago and asked Brian's advice. He examined her portfolio and suggested changing to his advisor. She must have a spare million or 2 if she offered to lend B&J cash. She's already made large cash gifts to the grandchildren, invested in Tom's businesses and started saving money for Phoebe's education when she was a baby. I assume she set up education funds for the other great-grandchildren when they were born. She also gifted Kirsty a large cash sum when she was pregnant, later refusing to take it back.
Elizabeth needs to contact her local Youth Offending Team with her concerns.
ReplyDeleteThey have an ongoing responsibility towards Freddy and should be able to visit.
My neighbour in London was a YOT Social Worker and was often off to Portland where many of his clients were sent to. Usually to sort out problems.
Think you're right there, Mrs P, but E. is acting the same way as she did when she blamed David for Nigel's death, like a cornered, panicked animal, lashing out at everyone, including those who are on her side, wanting to help. 'Freddie is no threat to anyone' ? Of course he was & potentially still is as far as the court is concerned. She's in a terrible position, who could honestly say they wouldn't react the same when they see their 18 yr old son beaten up by thugs in a supposedly controlled environment, but she won't be able to take any sensible action to help Freddie, or herself until she faces the truth.Usha is right, as are her brothers, so I don't see what s.services, prison authorities can or will do, unless she gets a grip & doesn't go in with all guns blazing.
ReplyDeleteAgree absolutely Carolyn.
DeleteBut of course whilst the audience will know or have opinions about what Elizabeth should do, the script writers are there to create drama.
And drama is what they are creating. For our benefit !
And it is probably pretty realistic, since, as you say, which of us would not feel as Elizabeth were we to be in the same situation.
And perhaps with both her brothers and her friend and legal adviser Usha on hand to employ an argument of reason, in due course she may well get her head into the sensible mode of contacting the appropriate services.
But before she can do so, Elizabeth needs to accept and acknowledge Freddie's responsibility towards his situation.
Yes, Mrs P, this SL is pretty convincing, the situation & the reactions of all the characters involved as we've come to know them. Dramatically sound ! ( Even the bits some of us get exasperated about - at least that shows we're engaged, which is the point of it all)
ReplyDelete👍
DeleteHH - thank you for giving us detail of Peggy’s finances, The question now is how will Christine fit into the SL.
ReplyDeleteChristine’s fall highlighted Fallon’s kind heart which in turn softened Kenton’s and together with revelations he has just heard about Freddie this led to reconciliation. Maybe this is the limit of the purpose of the fall although C may be killed off or move to write her out. We will have to see! Remember Jill’s fall softened her attitude to Toby just a little but there were no further developments from it.
ReplyDeleteThat's a valid point Ev.
ReplyDeleteThank you for bringing it to our notice.
Christine's situation could lead to several directions for a SL, or nowhere at all.
The only "senior" who had senior problems was Jack Woolley. Peggy cared for him as long as she was able to, but circumstances overtook her.
ReplyDeleteWe have Joe with his "farmers lung" but still seems to be going strong, Bert, Jill, Peggy but so far there has been no SL with a "senior" who needs physical help.
I, for one, would like to see this, with the adaption of a home to help, and how about wheelchair access in the Village. I know how difficult pushing some-one in a wheelchair can be. It's the parking, kerbs, accesibility to pavements etc. Perhaps the Christine SL will address this.
Gosh Miriam, I had a flashback reading your post so I guess that means I must still feel upset about it now. Please bear with me while I let off steam. Mum had had a stroke and I needed to take her to her Opticians about 20 miles away. First there is all the getting ready, and lifting wheelchair in car, then finding parking at the other end, then wheeling the heavy chair into town and somehow up the three steep steps into the opticians. Then Mum decides she needs the loo and can't wait , and there is no loo at the opticians, so I ask the receptionist if it would be alright to go to the public conveniences down the bottom of the hill. She said it would be fine so off we went. I then find you need a special key to get into "the handicapped" loo which was the only one big enough to take a wheelchair. Didn't have a key! So had to half drag half carry Mum into a normal compartment. Then by the time we had got back up the hill and into the Opticians we were 10 minutes late, and the optician came out and said we were late and refused to see Mum. I was so exhausted I just said I thought it very bad and left. Didn't have the strength left to argue then, but by the time I got home I was steaming and wrote a strongly worded letter to the opticians and told them I was also sending a complaint into what I think is now called the GOC. I was sent an apology and they then offered a free home appointment which was done, but I now go to a different very caring optician. Mum did improve from her stroke and made it into her 90's, and could still generally beat me at scrabble!
DeleteSorry, as I expect the above should be on the other blog really.
DeleteI am sure none of us will complain that you used the ' wrong ' thread Janice.
DeleteAnd I am very pleased that you felt able to let off steam and hope you feel better for it.
Disgusted about the way you were treated Janice.
DeletePleased your mum improved .
RE wheelchairs.
I didn't realise that they could get punctures until Mr LJ and I decided to take my mum and another lady ,who lived in the same Retirement home as she did,for a walk.
Husband and mum arrived back a long time before we did and all they did was laugh!
Of course the opticians had a loo, even if for the staff. Where has humanity gone, rules and regulations appear to rule our lives.
DeleteNot everywhere is the same though. When I was driving to Leeds recently and was desperate to go, I called at a CoOp garage, they didn't have a public loo, but the manager let me use the staff facilities.
Most places, most, but not all, will allow someone in desperate need to use a staff lavatory even if covertly.
ReplyDeleteI have encountered both attitudes in my time.
It's decent humanity to allow a person the use of your 'common' facilities, whoever you are.
Decided to open a new post ready for today’s episode.
ReplyDelete