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Life in Ambridge: Canterbury Tales, Part 2
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Life in Ambridge
THIS POST IS CLOSED "longer off topic comments" - Episode 14 Life Outside Ambridge Have a seat and let's chat.
Oh, lovely picture, Ruthy - glad you are featuring CT again, I missed the last one when it was time for it to close ! Thank you.
ReplyDeleteGreat picture Ruthy! I so enjoyed hearing Tom telling Lexi exactly what he thought and sticking up for his mate Roy. More of that please. However I did not enjoy the heavy breathing snog with Helen and Lee!!
ReplyDelete✔️ Anneveggie.
DeletePlus I think Joe managed to cover most “ words” for lavatory - in the end though I had to laugh as his disappointment turned to excitement at the thought of spending the evening in his own private convenience while Eddie and Clarrie dine in splendour at Grey Gables.
The more I think about it, the more I think that Tom was incredibly rude to Lexi. I wouldn't dream of confronting the ex of a friend about their break-up, never mind lecture them about what they choose to do with their body! He would get very, very short thrift from any of the women I know!
ReplyDeleteWell, I certainly wouldn’t tell Tom any of my secrets, he obviously can’t keep his mouth shut! I think he was very wrong to confront Lexi after Roy had asked him not to.
DeleteBut, at the same time, I am glad somebody has done so, and pointed out how unfair she has been to Roy. She doesn’t seem to have much empathy with her so-called ‘love’, only with Adam and Ian wanting a baby.
Like Archerphile I have mixed feelings.
DeleteTom was very wrong in speaking to Lexi about her relationship with Roy in any way at all.
However, I do think Lexi needed a reality check from somebody, but I have no suggestions as to who that could or should be.
Magical picture Ruthy. I was looking at the online news earlier and a lady mudlark was showing a medieval round horse bridle bell she had found on the foreshore of the Thames. She said it still had its inner bit and it still jingled.
ReplyDeleteThe best I ever found when mudlarking on the Thames was a boars jaw.
Delete😊
DeleteAh but maybe that boar was served up as part of a banquet for Henryn VIII !
DeleteHmmm I'm not sure Gary. I think Lexi has behaved in an appallingly insensitive way to Roy, and maybe someone needed to hold a mirror up to her to prevent her continuing to cause upsets in people's lives. Also Adam and Ian have to face the part they have played in destabilising Roy and Lexi's relationship.
ReplyDeleteI just feel that if one of my friends, or indeed my ex's friend, tried to read the riot act to either of us regarding OUR relationship I would tell them where to get off immediately!
DeleteAs to Lexi - I think she was rightly scared off by Roy acting like a crazy obsessive, declaring his love for her and planning their life together after about the second date they had. He came across as the neediest, weakest, clingy specimen in all of Borsetshire...
Indeed have they never realised that once the surrogacy plan was hatched Roy then had to agree to a cessation of his and Lexi’s sex lifet until Lexi became pregnant for A & I (maybe even beyond....) I guess that was to ensure there was no likelihood of her getting pregnant by Roy first!
DeleteGG. Agree with your assessment of Roy, he is a wimp and Tracy was also spot on, he is boring and drives a boring car. Tom was given information in confidence and it isn't within his remit to use that and verbally confront Lexi.
DeleteI drive a boring, 18 year old car - hope it wouldn’t put anyone off being friends with me!!
DeleteVery judgemental attitudes displayed here.
DeleteBoring to some, may be steady and grounded to others.
The most boring and unadventurous man I've known for over fifty years is now the full time carer for his wife who has Motor Neurone. They raised three successful musician daughters, and are the most cohesive and steady family I know.
What a fair, well balanced comment, MrsP. Anyway, Roy deliberately made himself boring- some might say that would not be hard- in order to deter the scarily forceful pursuit from Tracy
DeleteAgree with you Janice.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, Gary. Tom was completely out of order in speaking to Lexi like that, as was Roy in telling him about the surrogacy arrangement in the first place. I hope Adam puts Tom in his place. I also hope the third attempt to conceive is successful and Adam and Ian get their child. Tom still has his chance of parenthood. Roy is the man who was prepared to junk his children.
ReplyDeleteI’ve had my fill of Joe’s toileting arrangements and Clarrie’s carefully articulated ‘summat’s. Soundalikes don’t worry me but bogus accents do!
I will come clean.
ReplyDeleteI do not like the idea of surrogacy at all.
In the case of Roy and Lexi I find it completely distasteful.
If Lexi is successful and has a baby ,she expects Roy to see a child grow up in the village whose birth mother is the woman he loves/loved .
Lexi says she still loves Roy.
No way would she treat a person she loved in the way she has.
She has not gone into this arrangement for altruistic reasons.
Is she working at the chicken factory or is she sponging off Adam and Ian?
Therefore although Roy maybe should not have confided in Tom (but who could blame him.?) and It possibly was not Tom's business ( except he could see how it was affecting his long term friend ) I am pleased he did so and I still say.
Well done Tom.
I do hope that the attempt to conceive is unsuccessful and Lexi returns to her homeland .
Dreadful woman.
Roy, like Tom, is a bumbling man-child who appears to have almost no clue how adults sustain a long lasting relationship. And as for Tom handing out sermons on how to conduct oneself with regards to the feelings of your significant other, I will mentally file that right next to Donald Trump's Little Book of Etiquette...😉
Delete😃 maybe the surrogacy will spread around the village and become Fake News.
DeleteTotally agree especially with your reasoning. i believe like me you have found this storyline really silly. I suppose it was introduced to 'spice up' TA. Like you I found it unbelievable and distasteful. I am glad Tom spoke his mind and told Lexi what an unpleasant woman she really was. "I wanted to help out friends" was her mantra. Friends for how long? She had known Adam as her employer and only met Ian a couple of months before she volunteered. She embarked on a 'full' relationship with Roy, vowing that she loved him, then told him to cease and desist while she tried to become pregnant with a stranger's baby.
DeleteAs someone has queried elsewhere why all the secrecy? Did they think that no-one would notice when Roy Tucker's girlfriend got pregnant, had a baby which was then handed over to Adam and Ian?
I hope that this is the new editor's way of wrapping up this ridiculous tale.
As to your last point (below) I do wish I didn't keep picturing a teenager in Helen's arms.
I think that Roy is another character who has been changed out of all recognition,Gary.
DeleteHis behaviour is unbelievable
I think it is a totally ridiculous storyline
Once Lexi had decided to become a surrogate mother the relationship obviously was doomed.
No man in his right mind would have accepted what was about to happen.
Had he not told Tom then Tom wouldn't have been able to confront Lexi but Tom was worried about his friend and as often happens he acted on the spur of the moment to try to support him.
Maybe Tom regrets his outburst now but I am still pleased he did it.
✔️ 👏🏻 Lanjan. If Roy’s outburst does not leak into the village newsround (!) and Lexi does become pregnant it will be assumed that the baby is Roy’s - certainly until an explanation is given to the contrary. What a mess!
DeleteLanjan, I totally agree with your comments at 8.49 am. The whole surrogacy story has been very badly presented and Lexi seems to have been used as a convenient character to provide the rented womb. (Sorry if this phrase offends anyone). If they had to pursue the surrogacy story, how much better to have had Ian and Adam successfully follow the normal route of finding a surrogate instead of involving a character already in Ambridge.
DeleteRoy, has been treated abominably by Lexi - whether you consider him boring or having an unsatisfactory past has nothing to do with it. She has duped him, raised his hopes of a future together, dumped him with no apparent good reason and expected him to sit quietly through her pregnancy by another man and like it.
I most certainly hope the pregnancy does not succeed and she goes back home to her existing family.
If A and I want to go ahead and try again it should be by a different method - or to try adoption for lords sake, there are enough children around desperate for a loving home.
I get the feeling that this whole story was thought up by the last editor and the new one has to find an end for it somehow. The sooner the better!
I go along with the views expressed here. If Lexi were a real person, she would be very hard to fathom. As a fruit picker working hard as a single parent I liked her. Then we had the relationship with Roy and the surrogacy arrangement, her emotions and motivation all over the place. No, what it comes down to is confused, inconsistent script writing - poor Lexi!
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteWhile I am on my high horse.
ReplyDeleteWhy ,once again is the cliff edge Friday night denouement be what we have all been expecting since Lee turned up and met Helen for the first time?
I don't want this to be another sloppy story line like we had with Lilian and Justin.
If they want to be together ,fine ,but let them do so out of my hearing.
Well now I have got that off my chest I will take down the Christmas decorations.
✔️ 👏🏻 again LJ 🤗
DeleteI'm not overly fond of the Lexi character, she is a bit of a control freak and has transformed herself from caring counsellor, who starts a relationship with the local limpet and then offers to have a baby with the only gays in the village. So wimpy Roy Is condemned to abstinence and accepts the decision with exclamations of undying love, and is then dumped with fervent claims of love.
ReplyDeleteYou couldn't make this up. Could you?
They did, they did....but it's awful, being reminded of many aspects of its its awfulness in this morning's interesting debate, simply rams it home !
DeleteHere's a blatant inconsistency : accept (grudgingly) that Tom's tirade was out of order, am still applauding it like mad !
ReplyDeleteAgree with criticism of Roy as he's been a fool with women forever - initial misjudgement getting involved with Kate, the ultimate relationship disaster for any man ( unless all they want is a squalid quickie in a bouncy castle at someone's 50th), then he strikes pure gold with Hayley, only to screw that up years later, then being used by Elizabeth, now falling for Lexi & being trampled on all over again.
Tom, no better, but from a different angle - zilch understanding of women & himself. Starting with Brenda ( because I don't know what he got up to before, a really likeable character, he didn't listen to her, so she gave up on him, he treated the delightful Kirsty, whom he certainly didn't deserve, appallingly, he only took Hannah at face value - a bit of the Roy syndrome there - and now, well, time will tell, though it seems like success at last. Gosh, overlong comment..
.
Nice summing up of these two males. Carolyn. Can't call them 'men' really!
DeleteAs far as I rememberTom was with Kirsty before Brenda; certainly as a 'pal' when they were teenagers as they both got into trouble for trashing a field of genetically modified maize/wheat(?) which Brian was growing.
Tom was also very friendly with Hayley who had been John's girlfriend at one time but I don't think they were romantically involved. He and Hayley tried to keep John's pig herd going after his death but Pat and Helen were horrible to Hayley so it left Tom managing alone. I vaguely remember that but if I have misrembered someone is bound to tell me! :))
Spicy, that sounds pretty accurate to me. Kirsty and Tom were definitely in a relationship for quite a long time and seemed pretty serious about each other, all before Tom was with Brenda. I think she got fed up of him banging on (sorry) about his pigs and sausages, and finished with him, as did Brenda as well.
DeleteI agree with Gary on the Lexi debate. Even if I were Roy I would not have wanted someone to interfere in my relationship and I think Lexi handled Tom’s outburst well. Whatever the rights and wrongs it’s none of his business. As for Roy, I think he had many years successfully with Hayley and hasn’t ever got over his big mistake and loss of her.
Lan Jan, I do agree with you about Roy having to deal with a little child growing up in the village that is his ex’s and how hard that could be for him.
The child Lexi hopefully gives birth to won’t be hers - its biological parents will be Adam and the unknown (to us) egg donor. Adam will bring up his child with Ian as co-parent.
DeleteI think the Tom/Lexi incident demonstrated that Lexi is the grown up, Roy and Tom are men children, as Gary says. It can be difficult explaining adult situations to children.
And it really is as simple as that!
DeleteNot only children ,Maryellen.
DeleteI am finding your reasoning difficult to understand as well.
Sorry .
Don't mean to be rude.
✔️✔️✔️✔️✔️-Carolyn first sentence 11.26 am
DeleteWhich bit of my reasoning, LanJan? Bloggers have referred to Tom and Roy’s emotional immaturity/insensitivity many times!
DeleteThat Lexi is the grown up,Maryellen.
DeleteI don't think the way she is acting is very grown up.
She is a hard,selfish woman.
She doesn't care a jot about hurting the man she professes to love.
Were Pat and Helen really horrible to Hayley? Hayley had been John's girlfriend, he was unfaithful to her with Sharon, and he proposed to her just before he died.
DeleteLanJan - sadly, being hard and selfish (not that I am convinced Lexi is either of those) doesn’t disqualify someone from being grown up!
DeleteThink about the doorstep encounter - Tom behaves like a rude and prejudiced teenager (the banality of his parting shot was wince-worthy in itself). How was gratuitously insulting Lexi supposed to support Roy - who, if he loves Lexi as much as he professes, surely wouldn’t want her upset by Tom’s abuse. And like a teenager Tom hasn’t considered the consequences of exposing Roy’s untrustworthiness when it reaches Adam’s ears.
So, does Lexi react in kind, by slapping Tom’s face for instance? No, she behaves with dignity and restraint ie, in a totally ‘grown up’ way, matter of factly reports to Adam that Tom knows about the surrogacy (because Adam needs to know) but diplomatically refrains from mentioning Tom’s rudeness. I guess she acquired her diplomatic skills during her strawberry-picking days,ifnot before, when she often seemed to be the most adult person around!
Some of Lexi's DNA may be in the baby because in about 40% of surrogacy cases some DNA from the carrier mother does pass over to the baby; admittedly only a very small amount, but it is not quite so clear cut as the baby only having DNA from the egg and sperm donors.
DeleteJust checked on archived blogs for 1998 just after John's death
Delete'This might have been the end of pigs at Bridge Farm, but for John’s younger brother Tom, then 17. He and John’s grieving girlfriend Hayley Jordan (later Tucker) kept them going, and even expanded the business, as a practical tribute to his lost brother.
They started selling freezer packs to the public, but were left with the problem of the cheaper cuts. The obvious answer was to make them into sausages. Pat and Tony were annoyed when Tom approached his grandmother Peggy Woolley for a loan. In 1999, after some bad feeling, they agreed to fund the project themselves. But it was at the loss of aggrieved Hayley’s involvement, as they couldn’t countenance a non-family member being a partner in the family business.'
Helen chucked her out saying she wasn't part of the family so shouldn't be there.
Lowfield 31/01/99
'Pat tries again to sympathise with Hayley over her disappointment about the sausage venture. Hayley feels strongly that they deserved the support and even suggests to Pat that it was Helen who actually made the decision not to support them. When Hayley tells Pat that Tommy thinks there's more to the decision than is being admitted she obviously hits a cord as later Pat phones Helen to discuss the situation. Helen is very unsympathetic about Tommy's feelings and is not keen to call him to discuss it as Pat suggests. Pat also voices her concern about Hayley's feelings as she is virtually "one of the family". Wrong thing to say to Helen who exclaims that the problem lies in Pat and Tony treating Hayley as one of the family when she is not!'
Oooh! I'd forgotten all that. I thought Hayley was loved by all who knew her (except Kate, who doesn't count).
DeleteNice Blog!
ReplyDeleteif you want to book Melbourne Airport Transfer,Melbourne Chauffeur Car,Melbourne Courier Service,Silver Service Taxi Melbourne so move towards us because we provide all services in very affordable prices.
Taxi To Melbourne Airport
Will be in Oz in a couple of months and will definitely look you up if I go to Melbourne... How odd!!!!
DeleteIf you do go to Melbourne I can recommend Donovan's Restaurant in St Kilda ,Gary.
DeleteI promise you it is nothing like Wetherspoon's.
So many good points made. Maybe Tom shouldn't have spoken out to Lexi but I remain firmly pleased that he did so. Lexi is a cold hearted woman and I'm not sure of her motives for entering into the surrogacy agreement but I don't believe she is being altruistic. She has treated poor Roy dreadfully and there are far worse qualities of character than being 'boring' as Roy is accused of being. Boring could also maybe be defined as steadfast, loyal, faithful and predictable.
ReplyDeleteNodding at all your points, Anneveggie, including doubts about Lexi's motivations re the surrogacy. ( Looking for UK residency etc )
DeleteLudicrous, lame, & unconvincing to claim she's just realized the relationship is unworkable with
Children living in different countries. I suspect she's found out her plan, if there is one, won't wash, but feels honour bound to the last implant procedure.
Roy needed to confide in someone but spoke to Tom in confidence and Tom should have respected that. Tom had an affair with a woman from the supermarket and dumped Kirstie, he then jilted her at the altar and handled the loss of her baby very badly . I don't think he has any right to ctitisise anyone about relationships.
ReplyDeleteA case of 'do as I say, not as I do' ?!
DeleteReally enjoying reading all the comments today - spending the day in the kitchen cooking and listening to the football whilst dipping in and out of the blog.
ReplyDeleteAm I the boring one....? 😋
Possibly GG.
DeleteBut only by someone who climbs mountains and explores underwater caverns on a daily basis.
We know better !
Definitely a good day's blogging! I must add my thanks to Ruthy who made it all possible. Reading the comments and thinking back, I did like Hayley, not well treated by the residents of Ambridge.
DeleteHayley was always my favourite .
DeleteWhen she left my favourite became Kirsty.
Crystal Palace /Grimsby Town is the big one for me!
ReplyDeleteWhich teams do the residents of Ambridge support? For me UTB (5-0 today).
ReplyDeleteI think most people who enjoy football support Premier League teams.
DeleteIn theory I think Ambidge residents might support Aston Villa ,Wolves or Birmingham City perhaps.
Not long ago I had a fascinating conversation with a man on a train about "my " team Liverpool.
When I got onto the train he was talking on the 'phone to a friend about a recent match and he apologised to me for doing so.
We then
discussed the various players.
What surprised me was that he was a Londoner.
No Arsenal,Chelsea or Spurs for him.
UTB,Seasider?
Do I remember Roy was a Villa fan? For me, it's been Arsenal all my life (you can take the boy out of London but you can't ...)
DeleteUp the Boro!
DeleteI don't recall anyone I Ambridge ever discussing football. There is much talk about (boring tedious) cricket, horse riding/racing, and now since Lee's arrival karate. Other activities have included bell ringing, hunting, shooting, fishing and river swimming, some might call them sport???
DeleteThe only team I could find who won 5-0 was Middlesborough.
DeleteApologies for missing letters, I blame this old iPad.
DeleteGary
DeleteMy very first boyfriend played for Scotland!
And his name was.............?
DeleteWas he related to someone in Ambridge?⛹⛹
DeleteBefore your time!
DeleteNonsense! Tell ALL!
DeleteOn the other blog?
DeleteStasia I think more cricket is discussed because most villages have a cricket team but there aren't many who have a regular football team playing in Senior leagues. Plenty of juniors but few seniors here in Kent anyway.
DeleteFOREST GREEN ROVERS ⚽️👍🏿👍🏻
DeleteThere was a story line about getting World Cup tickets in 1998 (held in France). I think it was the Grundys who got tickets and thought they'd see England. However, although it turned out that they were for a Jamaica match, the boys weren't disappointed.
DeleteWell it turns out my local team, Gillingham (who I keep an eye on though don't actively support) were the 'giantkillers' yesterday! I am surprised middle son didn't text me the result. I bet it was noisy in the town last night!
DeleteI seem to remember a couple of tacked on scenes during the World Cup last year. That awful thing they do when they crowbar in something zeitgeisty and it makes you cringe!
ReplyDeleteYes it was cringe making in the summer.
DeleteI think there was a drama at Grey Gables some years ago about a football team staying there and a fight breaking out. None of the characters seem to play football, which is unlikely. (UTB spot on Gary - and Lan Jan, although I would have to correct your spelling, sorry.)
Yes, it was the Felpersham (United/City/something else) team.
DeleteO ,I see Seasider!
DeleteI really liked Lexi, when she first came to Ambridge, as a fruit picker, who was so helpful to Phoebe(?) or whoever had the pregnancy scare. She was a massive help to Jennifer, cleaning and sorting the caravans out. She + Roy were good together, but how things have changed. All I want now, is for the final "implant" to fail and she disappears back to Bulgaria.
ReplyDeleteI still think that Adam + Ian will become Great foster parents, giving a lovely home, to deserving "child/children in need".
Time will Tell.
Miriam I totally agree with all of this.
DeleteAnd me.
DeleteMe too.
DeleteSpot on! Lexi started well and turned into something quite unpleasant, complete with silly 'Ve haf vays' accent.
DeleteI thought I heard ' Lexi ' or the actress at least, in a play this week. Cannot remember when or what. But with the same voice and accent.
DeleteAgree with Miriam too. Let's hope this happens.
DeleteI think the surrogacy will be successful, so that Susan and the rest of Ambridge can express their opinions and Adam and Ian will become proud middle-aged parents to a baby - girl, preferably.
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed the second instalment of the Canterbury Tales.
So did I ! Great fun, played with gusto. Well chosen tales, too, for dramatic presentation.
DeleteIf Lexi does get pregnant and is living at the home of Adam and Ian,won't tongues start to wag ?
ReplyDeleteSince she isn't yet pregnant and if she does conceive ,the gossips will realise that the father isn't Roy since she had 'chucked' him a while ago.
I won't continue with the 'grown up' theme Maryellen.
You may be right in evrything you say.
I don't like Lexi.
She is a devious woman-I think -but you may well be right and she could be "grown up"whatever that means but fortunately I haven't met a grown up like her.
She will have to go .
I don’t know whether this comment will appear. Usually they disappear as soon as I touch publish, so I have been reading everyone’s ideas without being able to add my fourpennyworth.
ReplyDeleteI have always thought the surrogacy s/l weak and totally unbelievable. Man and woman meet, fall in love and almost immediately the woman is so selfless she suggests that she will be a surrogate mother for her boss and his husband. If Lexi and Roy had been in a relationship for some years I could understand but they had just become “a couple”.
Ridiculous!
Whereas the L.L./ Elizabeth/ Russ/Freddie s/l I’m finding fascinating.
I’ve got my fingers crossed that this will appear on the blog. Love your pictures Ruthy.
I agree that cricket is a village game. Most of the villages in my area have a team. In many ways it is more fun to watch than professional teams. My husband who’s a farmer, was not allowed to play football as a young man because he was more likely to be injured and unable to work. Fortunately he was a v good batsman so cricket was his game.
DeleteI am probably in the minority but I was happily satisfied that friday’s episode ended with Helen and Lee finally getting together however predictable. It is amusing that Rhuari and Ben sound so much older than Lee and Josh. Strange casting.
Yes, Soz, you are here!
ReplyDeleteAfter all the football discussion you all got into yesterday, I want to put in a word for Cricket! I think it features quite often in summer episodes because it is the quintessential English summer sport, provides an alternative venue for action to take place, and can involve many resident characters including, since last year, the women. Who will ever forget Rob being so nasty in the dressing room or the amusement caused by Shula’s fish paste sandwiches?
I’m sorry nobody commented on the Knighthood for Alistair Cook, either on the programme or here, but I was delighted. Though I expect Lanjan’s favourite ‘Sir’ Geoffrey must be feeling a bit sore and rightly so!
Not just Lanjan Archerphile. I have been 'sweet on him' since he was a young man It wasn't just he was an excellent cricketer but that he wore glasses I think! I hated having to wear glasses since I was eleven and I felt a kinship with him!
DeleteMolly Button had been mentioned several times during last summer due to being in the Ambrdge team, and now as a pal of Ben and Ruairi, so perhaps she'll get a voice this year!
Oh, and I can’t see any comments about the Friday night cliffhanger of Helen and Lee.
ReplyDeleteI do wish he sounded old enough to be snogging a mature-ish woman with two children. How does everyone think this is going to progress?
On the surface it would seem the ideal solution for Helen - a good steady loving relationship with a man Henry and Jack would also love to have in their lives. But it could also cause more problems. I am not sure if Lee is actually divorced or just living apart from his wife - then there are his girls. Would they ever all live together as one big happy family. There is a long way to go yet.
Not many comments on the cliffhanger because it wasn't, it was expected.
ReplyDeleteMy further comments on the surrogacy, whatever the DNA ratio, Lexi would be the birth mother, so the child would have four parents...
Lexi (Ania Sowinski) is in the afternoon play today, second part.
Basia, if the play this afternoon is the second part, then it must have been her I heard earlier in the week, as I mentioned yesterday.
DeleteThank you for the confirmation
Adam and Ian’s quest for parenthood which led to surrogacy began well - a very pertinent and interesting theme with great informational potential. But instead of taking them right through the clinical process with all it involved, it turned to near farce with first Kate then Helen mooting their services and swiftly backtracking. Lexi’s involvement carried a bit more conviction but also turned silly with Jennifer’s fussing and the Roy byline, etc. As Basia says, it may yet work out successfully, but the overall impression left by the storyline doesn’t do couples desperately seeking parenthood any service. I know just how desperate that desperation can be and I feel angry on their behalf that the TA producers have been so irresponsible in their handlig of of this story.
ReplyDeleteI think it was really Ian who was desperate for a child, but he discovered he had a low sperm count, so Adam ( reluctantly) agreed to be the prospective father. For those of us who have never wanted children it must be difficult to understand the drive to have our own child. My sister had three attempts with IVF unsuccessfully and the process left her physically and emotionally unwell.
DeleteIt is very easy to say, get over it, and adopt a needy child, but life in Ambridge isn't about simple solutions.
I do agree most sincerely with the two comments above.
DeleteThe irresponsible SL in not treating IVF seriously from Maryellen, and Stasias understanding of the pain that can be caused as well as the ambivalence that may be present.
I never wanted children and had two, but if I could ' do it again ' I would still not want children.
And, I have a daughter unable to conceive, not desperate to have a child herself, but selfless enough to try IVF three times because she understood the importance of becoming a father for her husband.
They remain childless nevertheless.
Like Lan Jan I should come clean.
I believe passionately that a child is a gift of nature and that IVF along with much medical intervention is very wrong.
I wouldn't go so far as to say that IVF etc. were wrong, but my impression is that people who like their spouses can reconcile to childlessness (as well as people who have no spouse). It must be very difficult to be married to someone who says they can never be happy unless they have a child (i.e. 'Sorry, dear, you're not enough. I only married you because I wanted children.').
DeleteI agree with both Maryellen and Stasia.
ReplyDeleteMy younger daughter was going through the trauma and expense of IVF(unsucessful) at the time that Helen became instantly pregnant because, it seemed, Helen always got what she wanted. My daughter was then an avid TA listener but was so upset by the trivialisation that she has refused ever to listen again.
I had my lovely girl in tears and share Maryellen's anger.
My sympathies Pierre and anyone else affected. My younger sister in law, who would have made a great mother, went through the same, and it is so upsetting when the IVF attempts fail, and painful as well for family who are helpless to help.
DeleteI too am sorry that your sister, Stasia and your daughter ,Pierre had such sad experiences .
DeleteI am old fashioned and whilst I think that IVF treatment for couples is an excellent idea. I don't like the way Helen went about it.
I foresee difficulties when Henry is older and he wants to know about his father.
I totally agree with Maryellen's final sentence.
My apologies for inserting my reply to Maryellen and Stasia before reading the other replays, Pierre, Janice and LJ.
DeleteIt seems rude now that I have read them. It was not intentional.
But....... those replies along with my own, suggest to me that the incidence of IVF failure should be more widely known.
Unfortunately it seems that an attitude of, ' if you can, why wouldn't you ' is prevalent amongst the general public. I personally encountered this attitude from a number of people when my daughter was trying for a baby.
My daughter teaches sixth form students so I asked her opinion of the actors playing Rhuari and Ben. She said their voices were too deep and they don’t mumble enough!
ReplyDeleteAgree Helen got pregnant too easily and I was appalled that she selfishly decided to have a child in this way. So sorry about your daughter’s distress Pierre and hope she is in a happier phase in her life now.
I know of one couple who went through IVF, had twins and then another child conceived naturally.
ReplyDeleteI don't know of anyone who went through surrogacy.
Daniel was an IVF baby. Helen had artificial insemination, as she herself explained, she called it treatment, for single or gay women which is much simpler. Helen's desire to have a baby came on the back of Annette's abortion. She obviously has no problems with conceiving.
I think the listeners' antipathy towards the surrogacy storyline is that it was unrealistic right from the beginning.
ReplyDeleteAs Stasia said, it was Ian who was the driving force for having a child. I remember him saying that he wanted 'to prove himself a man' when his Dad was upset about Ian being gay. Then he wanted to pass on his genes and when his friend (Maddie?) asked him to be the father of her child he was terribly disappointed when she found a boyfriend and changed her mind.
The quest for being a parent then came up out of the blue (but may have remembered wrongly)
But I do remember that Adam was dead against it right from the start and told both Ian and Jennifer how he felt. He only agreed to it to make Ian happy.
This is hardly a sound reason for a loving balanced family though, I think.
The reasons for the desire for a child/baby at BHC have changed through the storyline which has made it unsatifactory.
Perhaps the editor decided on a semi- private surrogacy arrangement because many people pointed out that many agencies would regard Adam as too old to be the father. Listeners were also adding that as both men were about 50 years old and working full time with absolutely no experience of small babies why would they sensibly decide on having a brand new baby?
Finally why did they dismiss the idea of fostering and adoption so readily when it was the most sensible and worthwhile answer? Presumably to take up an 'issue' ie surrogacy. I do hope the constant 'issue led' storylines will be a thing of the past soon.
(Just my own preference for entertainment!)
Your not alone in your final hope Spiceycushion, quite a few of us are with you.
DeleteMe too, Spicy. I have thought recently that the storylines have become more character led rather than issue led. I think the last bit of obvious dissemination of public information was poor Nic’s death from Sepsis. That was a story that, although very sad, probably did some good in alerting the public to the dangers of infection and what symptoms to look out for.
DeleteCould this change be led by the new editor?
I think so (says she hopefully!)
DeleteMeant to say that the picture at the top is the one which is on the dust cover, and inside of, my copy of the Tales. An excellent book with modern translation by Nevill Coghill side by side with the original Middle English text, and rhyming in both 'languages.'
ReplyDeleteSo I did sometimes cheat and look at the right hand page when reading it, so as to learn what was meant in the Middle English!
There's no guarantees with IVF, I know, in fact, I wonder if the failure rate is higher than the success ? Sad to read the above accounts of the personal suffering & heavy disappointments. My neice tried 3 times, one miscarriage, another didn't take, third still birth, very premature. However, they rallied, will always admire them for this, & adopted, after going through all the hoops. Now they have a boy & girl, who are super & it's wonderful to see the settled, loving family life that has ensued ( the elder, incidentally, then aged 4, was bridesmaid at my son's wedding, back in July!)
ReplyDeleteBack to TA, I couldn't agree more that the surrogacy SL has been messed up, insultingly so. There's a good reason why Adam & Ian didn't go down the agency route - would have been deemed unsuitable, as others have shown, in quite a number of ways, not least motivations. (Ian's original one, & Adam, to keep him happy). Dubious reasons for having children is hardly unknown in the world of unassisted conceptions, it has to be said, in fairness.
The SL might just redeem itself by the implant not taking, The couple re thinking, realising it wasn't a viable idea, & either trying for adoption or looking realistically at their respective ages & occupations, so resigning themselves to a childless future.
Worst case, in my view, would be that it all works out, Granny Jenny does the majority of childcare until she's 80 something, & every practical problem gets ironed out in the typically unconvincing TA manner.
So I hear Part 2 of Canterbury Tales and enjoyed both parts very much. These are the first exposure to CT - are these typical of how they are staged or read? Are there many other tales?
ReplyDeleteI hope that this "surrogacy" S/L in TA doesn't come to fruition. I have nothing against surrogacy in the "real world". Elton John + Husband have done surrogacy 2x, but they have a priveledged life-style, so can afford the Nanny and all other "staff". I still cannot imagine how Ian + Adam will cope with a new-born. Which of them will give up, or reduce, their work life, and who will do day-care??
ReplyDeleteNow Jenny has no real home of her own, I cannot imagine she will be able to take on the care of a babe.
OK she might have a new house, when babe born (Sept).if the implant is viable, but where will she + Brian be living then, it might not be Ambridge.
Why does surrogacy have to be only for the wealthy Miriam ? Having nannies and staff doesn't necessarily equate to good parenting or to a happy childhood. Should Adam and Ian become parents then they will work out themselves who will do the caring. Having your Own child is on the whole much easier than having an adopted or foster child as I believe you have suggested.
DeleteThe problem (as I see it ) with so-called character-led drama as demonstrated in The Archers at the moment, is that it results in too many relationship-driven storylines, which tend to be unoriginal and shouty. Granted the new editor has toned down the shoutiness in recent weeks and direct confrontation has been mostly been deflected, but his storylines are becoming lame - and sadly, his idea of light relief seems to depend on lavatorial humour, judging by the recent bogs ‘n’ bottoms episodes (okay, so it’s an English tradition dating back to Chaucer and beyond, but did we need really need the Cider Club loo tale as well?) Put characters in a situation they may or may not have helped to create and show me how they react to it - please!
ReplyDeleteI am so sorry to read the above comments about the pain people have gone through, and I agree that the story line has taken too many twists and turns to be either interesting or helpful to anyone going through it. I wonder if the changes of editors hasn’t helped. I wish the latest editor the best of luck with sorting out the story line to a hopefully plausible resolution.
ReplyDeleteOn another subject I am interested that people find Lee unconvincingly too young. The actor played a young policeman in Heartbeat who was killed on his 21st birthday. That was about 15 years ago and I believe he is a similar age. Perhaps because I knew this I haven’t thought him too young for Helen.
To add to Seasiders comment - I am perplexed by the antipathy towards Lee and his young voice.
DeleteIt has always seemed to me that people come in all shapes, sizes and sounds.
And the sound emanating from a person does not always correlate with that persons size build or age.
When we hear a voice without seeing that person surely we create our own picture.
Lee sounds like a fella to me, albeit with a light voice. He may or may not be about the same age as Helen, but he might also be twenty years younger.
And if he is, why is that a problem ?
It has been clear from his first appearance in Ambridge that he and Helen had an attraction for each other, which may have been sexual or simply two souls connecting. It is in the gift of the TA team in which direction it goes.
MrsP - good points you make - why does it matter what age Lee is? Though I think he might be a tad younger than Helen because he married young and had kids soon after. Just my thinking.
DeleteI think Lee's youthful voice may only be a problem because Ruairi and Ben sound so butch and old in comparison!
Deletebootgums -That was my initial point i.e. in comparison, Lee the responsible father of two daughters, sounded much younger that the two ne'er do well (at the moment) teenagers. I like to imagine the characters and what they look like (as in the written word in novels) working with clues given (obviously) and it is proving very difficult with Lee, Ben and Ruairi.
DeleteBTW I can remember adult International sportsmen who had high pitched voices eg Steven Gerrard and Graham Gooch many years ago.
Miriam - on your point that Elton has money to provide for 2 children - how does anyone else raise their children without being ultra rich and have a live in nanny? This is just insane to me. Parenthood is a juggle for most of us, no less for single parents. We make it work because that's what has to be done.
ReplyDelete👍- again Ruthy.
DeleteOh dear Elizabeth, what are you up to ?
ReplyDeleteHiding the truth !
She is thinking, in the only confused way she can think these days, that she is doing the Right Thing for her daughter, whereas she is only throwing her back into the arms of the Bloodsucker !
DeleteCue for the Aldridges to move in to Lower Loxley (after a bit of bridge-mending)?
ReplyDeleteWhat's the betting that Ross had "a conversation" with Elizabeth before Lily came down and suggested that Lily needed to pursue her own life (with him) and that support money would be welcome.
ReplyDeleteI hope he shows his true colours to Lily soon. She's so her mother's daughter and, I think, the SWs have cast her/directed her very well with her similar, light, airy, posh accent. She's made to take over from or work with Elizabeth at the moment and maybe she'd be more fulfilled if she did.
I don't think UNI is right for all even if the person is more than capable of it as, academically, she is.
Previous comments have suggested, too, that it's possible to go back to study in the future.
Lily has the qualifications to do it.
Her life is toxic at UNI at the mo and perhaps she will get much more satisfaction in getting LL up and running with her equally competent - usually - Mum.
100% Agree Janet ✔️
DeleteHear, hear!
DeleteWow just seen your post maryellen. - what a great idea - in theory. 😊
ReplyDeleteI agree - what a thought!
DeleteI hadn't thought of that possibility Janet but you're right. Whether Russ did or didn't though it is obvious that Elizabeth is still not 'right'. Lily also needed some convincing to go back to uni.
DeleteOh, why are they dragging out this Lily/Russ disaster ? We all know she'll wise up eventually, the penny nearly dropped a few times already. I suppose trying catch up, keep up, back in Manchester, find a job will clinch it. One day (soon, please) she'll stumble wearily back to the flat, faced with a blank canvas & no supper ( ' you didn't leave me enough cash for the organic ingredients, Lily !') & she'll see a scrounging parasite instead of the man she loved...
ReplyDeleteHere’s hoping Carolyn 🙏
DeleteTell us more,Maryellen.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI think I’ll leave the fine detail to the scriptwriters!
DeleteFine detail ,Maryellen?
DeleteYou haven't even given us the coarse detail.
Exactly ,Carolyn.
DeleteEnough is enough.
LanJan - the coarse detail is that the Aldridges rent a wing of Lower Loxley and provide the on-the-spot, moral support for Elizabeth that Lewis clearly isn’t (and Lily shouldn’t have to), maybe because the TA budget won’t stretch to him and/or the actor isn’t interested. I wouldn’t pin much hope on the doc - anything could have happened to him, jobwise and womanwise since he last spoke.
DeleteWas prepping tonight’s dinner while listening to tonight’s episode and felt sick to my stomach that Lily is heading back with useless Russ. Already an indication that the family will not see what is really happening with E. As with others already commented, would like Russ to be out of the SL - and please make it soon.
ReplyDeleteI wondered whether Lily had done a final round of the relatives before she left with Russ the first time in order to pictureise them about the state E is in? As has been said though, they are all tied up in their own lives. Agree Richard Locke should come back into the story to help and support Elizabeth.
ReplyDeleteI wondered if the SL might be heading this way.....
DeleteEv, I think you are right that Lily alerted the family about Elizabeth’s health last Thursday, but somehow they don’t seem to realise how serious it is. It is dragging on and on but I suppose that’s realistic, that people struggle and manage to keep up a pretence that they are coping, masking the extent of their problems. In that sense Elizabeth and Lily are similar, circling around their own problems, not being honest to themselves or others about their situations, heading for a crisis when things implode. Who will implode first?
ReplyDeleteI will if it isn't sorted out soon.
Delete😂😂😂
Delete😂😀
DeleteI think Janet may be right.
ReplyDeleteWhen David catches up with Elizabeth ,she will tell him that she agrees with Russ that Lily needs to get back to Manchester as soon as possible or she will be too far behind with her Course and then David just may realise what has been going on.
Brian and Jenifer are feeling the pinch, so how are they funding Ruairi's public school education?
ReplyDeleteThey sold Home Farm! Anyway, Brian and Jennifer feeling the pinch is not the same as the likes of the Grundys feeling the pinch.
DeleteBut that money is earmarked for the cost of the cleanup and future fines, and possible confinement at Her Majesty's leisure. Or so I thought.
DeleteQuite - it just means one tagine maker/container rather than two.
DeleteIf they are downsizing, why has Jennifer put all that stuff in the barn for the next house? Won’t it rot in there anyway? Time for a sale - as someone said Emma and the others getting the affordable houses will be looking for affordable furniture, and tagines.
Deletecarolyn-Seasider, I did chuckle at your responses. But, will Emma be able to afford Jenifer's bits and bobs. I imagine these will be mostly antiques and be sold at an auction of fine art and antiques. Emma would need to win the lottery.
DeleteThey are downsizing, but tiny Willow Cottage is just a stopgap while they look for something more suitable (three bedrooms), but still quite a bit smaller than Home Farm.
DeleteCan’t quite imagine Brian and Jenny holding a car boot sale - my brain just wont accept it!
ReplyDeleteNo no no, car boot sale ?
DeleteIt would at the very least be a garage sale.
MrsP. I got the impression they don't have a garage, after the 'this is my spot' conversation with Kirsty. Or maybe the garage is full (like my own) of more kitchen items.
DeleteI suppose it would have to be a barn sale as it’s all in the barn on the farm.
DeleteMust admit I though exactly the same as Janet when I listened to TA this morning.
ReplyDeleteRuss has secretly bent Elizabeth’s ear about Lily returning to Manchester
“But Elizabeth, Lily just can’t shine and grow whilst she is trapped here at Lower Loxley - she needs the freedom (!) to get back to her studies and fulfill her potential”
A.K.A. - I need her to earn money to keep me in mung beans and linen sheets while I dabble in watercolours!
Poor Elizabeth is made to feel dreadfully guilty, desperately puts on a brave face, then collapses as the car rounds the bend in the Lower Loxley drive.
👏👏👏 Superb acting from Alison Downing with very convincing tears over the last few episodes. Yes, I think Russ had words with E and she did well to control emotions until Lily departed. Interesting that she turned down David’s invitation to supper and I wonder whether she really did have a prior engagement with Glen and family or just feels she needs to be alone. If she is pushing the wider family aside it doesn’t bode well.
DeleteThat should be Alison Dowling of course!
DeleteI agree with all you say. I was quite sure Elizabeth couldn’t face supper at Brookfield and made up an excuse, which not only got her out of going but gave the impression she is leading a “normal “ life.
DeleteYep Seasider, that's how I heard it too.
DeleteI thought the same, that Elizabeth made up the invitation from Glen, to deflect David.
DeleteScript writer1- I don''t think our editor has much idea how to sort out the Lily/Russ storyline.
ReplyDeleteSW2-I agree with you but don't worry about it.
He will just check on the Archersfan blog to see what posters say on that site and go with their ideas.
SW1- Well let's hope he gets on with it quickly .The listeners are getting a bit fed up with this particular plot.
Isn’t it the kind of issue-devoid, character-led, relationship-centred storyline that ‘the listeners’ pine for?
DeleteNot all of the time, just some of the time. Especially when some S/Ls are become Tedious and Boring. Eg, Tom, Roy, Russ, Natasha, Hannah, Lexi and their various significant others.
DeleteActually, bristling with issues, far from devoid of : a) mental breakdown going unnoticed, & concealed by the sufferer b)susceptibility of a young & inexperienced person to exploitation by an older lover c) professional misconduct in an educational institution ( left unexplored, admittedly) d) potential issues around surrogacy ( unfortunately, through the messy, probably atypical SL of Adam/Ian/Lexi/Roy.
DeleteI totally agree, Carolyn, I was just thinking that the Lower Loxley s/l has a lot of mileage in it, with both Elizabeth and Lily hiding the truth from each other and being manipulated by Russ with his extraordinary culinary skills. If Lily had stayed on she might have had a clearer idea as to what she wanted to do next and would have kept an eye on her mother.
DeleteI am noticeing a difference, with the now new TA editor. I think that he is very aware of how Ambridge should evolve, and this does not include Lexi/Roy, and the surrogacy SL. I think this will be disappear soon, well hopefully.
DeleteI don’t recognise a), b) and c) as issues driving this storyline, probably because I’m the thickest pupil in the class. Though there is a parallel here between Elizabeth’s agoraphobia and the coercive control issue, shown in the victim’s coverup/denial to family and friends and their consequent inaction. The infertility issue isn’t a Lower Loxley one.
DeleteNo, surrogacy is nothing to do with LL etc. but Roy &Lexi were on Stasia's list, so I popped that in. The other 3 do relate.
DeleteElizabeth's agoraphobia?
DeleteShe has seemed to be avoiding going out and when she did go shopping with Russ panic in a crowded place took over, a symptom that can accompany agoraphobia.
DeleteAll I realistically hope for:- is that Elizabeth will finally get the help she needs, before things deteriorate even further.
ReplyDeleteWho will her "saviour" be, who realises that there is a problem and will then "take control"???
Oliver, Pip and/or Freddie - the latter having been "released" much earlier, than expected.
DeleteIt might just be a possibility, as he has been "away" now, for over 3 months of his 6 month sentence.
What a great R4 broadcast - The Unbelievable Truth, which I have just listened to for the 1st time.
ReplyDeleteWill listen again.
I am entertained and irritated in equal measure, but listen every week and have done so since the first series.
DeleteIt was Kirsty who wanted to talk but we knew it'd be all about Helen and then drunken Alice...
ReplyDeleteYes, I was really interested to know what Kirsty’s thoughts are about a new career direction but no, Helen just wanted to talk about herself. I can’t see her putting Lee off, it was surely a cover whilst she tested Kirsty’s reaction to her news.
DeleteAs for Alice, why aren’t Jennifer and Brian concerned about their daughter’s drinking habits?
DeleteMiriam above, was it six months or a year that Freddie was sentenced? I thought we were expecting him out after six months, but perhaps I have forgotten. I think we are into the fourth month now??
DeleteIt was 6 months, presumably with the proviso of 'good behaviour'.
DeleteOr was it a sentence of 12 months, with the likelihood that would mean 6 months in practice?
DeleteKirsty has voiced job dissatisfaction before, for the same reasons, so maybe this will develop into an interesting SL - Kirsty finding her métier. Helen's response was unhelpfully bland, but, there again, I didn't reckon much to Kirsty's response to Helen. Why didn't she probe the fear a bit further, instead of backing the idea of letting Lee down gently. She was honest in saying she liked him, gave the first kiss, so why encourage retreat ? Maybe she was distracted by the noise next door, heralding neighbour trouble to come.....
ReplyDeleteMe too. Don't know why Kirsty thought Helen should run away, just because Helen has (understandable) doubts about entering another relationship. Come on, Kirsty, I regard you as the wisest person in Ambridge!
DeleteKirsty didn't sound wildly enthusiastic about Philip.
Seasider, agree about Alice; really, the Archer family are notorious for being blind to the obvious in their ranks !
ReplyDeleteI can't remember the origins of the antipathy between Kirsty and Brian. I'd be grateful to any other bloggers who can fill in the gap.
ReplyDeleteKirsty was the person who uncovered the contamination of the Am from Brian’s land, having swum in the Am last January and found dead fish there. She also protested vehemently against the large scale dairy unit, now Justin’s pig unit, when Brian was involved in its running. Also as I think someone mentioned recently, when she was young and going out with Tom, Brian had an experimental genetically modified crop on his land,which Kirsty and Tom trashed as a protest, and they both went to court over it. Anyone remember anything else?
DeleteAgree with Seasider that someone needs to pay attention to Alice's drinking habits. Adam was certainly very irritated by her behaviour.
ReplyDelete