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Life in Ambridge: Comments week of February 11, 2019
Life in Ambridge: Comments week of February 11, 2019
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Life in Ambridge
THIS POST IS CLOSED "longer off topic comments" - Episode 14 Life Outside Ambridge Have a seat and let's chat.
GG - in agreement with your post in closed blog about Mia - that would be nice.
ReplyDeleteRickyard is positively glowing - well done, Emma, & thanks, RUTHY !
ReplyDeleteI just wonder what will happen when Pip learns that Emma, did the big clean up. I hope she charged Toby 2x her usual hourly rate.
ReplyDeleteHit the spot again Ruthy ⭐️
ReplyDeleteYes. She is brilliant.
DeleteHow lucky we all are that after April 8th last year - these friendly TA blogs became available.
I really enjoy my chats + differing thoughts.
We all stay civil and that is so wonderful, and very important.
I have been busy so couldn't reply. Lanjan, MrsP is right not everyone presents with depression in a text book fashion. They come with their personality and character traits and when unwell these can be used inappropriately to protect themselves from external threats. These coping mechanisms may have served her in the past but now life has become more challenging and they no longer work.
ReplyDeleteBootgums. I am also cynical about the application of some of these therapies. Having spent thirty years in psychiatry I became sceptical about various psychological interventions. I believe some therapies work for some and not for others. CBT doesn't work for every individual and is used by practitioners as a more cost effective approach. Six sessions and you are cured. It's all rubbish.
It seems to me, and I may be being too simplistic here, that CBT is used to help a person deal with their symptoms, which is useful, but that it doesn't actually deal with the underlying cause. In a case where trauma is very deeply buried, and a client is unable to face, or fighting its unnearthing, then CBT, although not a cure, might provide a helpful alternative as a strategy for coping with life.
DeleteIt is an enormous pity when choice of treatment is affected by cost.
Mia, hurrah. A young person who sounds her age.
ReplyDeleteWhy do Philip and Kirsty need a four bedroom house?
ReplyDeleteRoy told Ian that the IVF had no effect on his relationship with Lexi, I strongly disagree.
✔️👏✔️👏
DeleteThanks Stasia.
ReplyDeleteI'm disappointed that Kirsty is moving in with Philip, especially as she seems to have made the decision on the basis of Roy's advice, which came out of his wish that he'd tried harder with Lexi, although lack of enthusiasm or decisiveness on his part clearly wasn't the problem. His first analysis, that Kirsty and Philip just weren't that serious, was the right one. I don't think Philip is going to turn nasty or anything, but Kirsty is drifting into a relationship that will clip her wings, and she doesn't really know why she's doing it except that Philip wants it and it seems like the natural next step. Now it will be very, very difficult to bail out.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think he'll clip her wings, Bootgums ? When she talked about changing her job, he came across as encouraging. When it comes to starting a family, we don't know yet, but a 4 bedroom house sounds promising !
DeleteI agree with Bootgums thoughts.
DeletePhilip hasn't yet commited to buying a Beechwood house. Has he a house to sell, will he get the required morthage?
Things aren't that certain just yet and thoughts + circumstances can change.
Just the sense I have of Kirsty and Philip's relationship, carolyn. They're comfortable together, but Kirsty seems to be ignoring her misgivings. She certainly doesn't seem to feel towards Philip as she once did towards Tom. It's a bit 'Oh well, I suppose he might do.'
DeleteBrian made no secret that Kate's return was Bad News. Utter dismay expressed in public. She may not find any 'Darlings' or more material shows of affection winging their way to her from her parents. I wonder what has happened to those yurts ? Soggy from snow & rain ?
ReplyDeletePerhaps she'll swan in with Noluthando, who's pissed off her dad once too often. That's Ok, the girl can hunker down with Peggy, they got on well & Chris clearly intends to stay put in the Laurels ( favourite trysting place for lovers of all ages). As for Kate ? Who knows or really cares; I suppose she has a small income from the cottage that was given to her ( was it?), dry out a yurt or something. Maybe the ubiquitous Chicken factory would take her on for a trial period.
Kate and the chicken factory ?
DeleteThat's a laugh !
I feel utter despair at the thought of Kate returning. I thought we’d got rid of her for good!
ReplyDeleteI know she spices things up a bit and could be considered as the piece of grit in the oyster shell of Ambridge but I cannot stand the character.
Regarding where she’ll stay - I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Roy offers her a room now that Lexi has gone and Kirsty may be off too. He’d probably welcome a bit of company and help with expenses. But please, please, please scriptwriters don’t let them ‘get together’ again.
You just wrote my exact thoughts.
Delete😮 mine too!
DeleteShe could go to Grandma Peggy now that Christine has moved out. Think someone already suggested that. Not sure how Peggy would cope long term but she is a tough lady!
Delete'Twas I. N. really took to great grandma, don't think she'd give Peggy any trouble.
DeleteI loved Charles Collingwood's delivery of 'She's flying back tomorrow.' Positively sepulchral.
DeleteKate might go to Alice and Chris's.
...except Alice can't stand her. Chris in an unenviable situation - permanently drink wife from the stress & a screeching SiL. Susan & Neil would have to rescue him...
DeleteLynda and Kate has a surprising rapport years ago so perhaps she can go there and offer yoga etc to the B and B guests.
ReplyDeleteBelated comment: I thought Mia was refusing the trip because it coincides with her mother’s anniversary. Wasn’t it half term? Wasn’t there an issue that Brian didn’t give Will time off to go out with the family, possibly even to said theme park? Perhaps I haven’t remembered it correctly as surely such a trip wouldn’t be organised at such a time if that were true, would it?
correction of first paragraph: had a surprising rapport, oh this predictive text!
DeleteI only have to add - these are all good comments - thumbs up to everyone!
ReplyDeleteKate certainly tops the current poll of Ambridge’s ‘can’t stand her’ young women. Nearly as ‘can’t stand her’ as Kate (or have been until recently ) are:
ReplyDeletePip
Natasha
Hannah
Alice
Emma
Lily
That’s today’s Ambridge’s entire young, female population whose names we know, apart from the Button sisters.
On 2nd thoughts, Kate doesn’t qualify as young, any more than.Kirsty and Helen do. So it’s the rest of my list who are today’s Ambridge’s entire speaking young female population and come in for all the stick.
DeleteI agree about Natasha, the others are central to the script as they add a bit of zest, and sexual innuendo. Except I see Lily as more A Sexual, PIP needs to remain because without her Toby would be defunct, and if she goes then he and his brother can exit, stage left to Brighton. Your heart would be broken if he went Maryellen. I will raise a glass when he goes.
DeleteWe need to have more Input from Tracy, silent Bella should acquire a voice and I'm sure we will be hearing more from Mia.
Horror of horrors Ruiari may have to attend a state school, and will he have to share a room with Kate. 🙀👿
The yurts have been empty for months and must be extremely mouldy and dirty, unliveable in. Has Kate ever occupied her cottage?
True, but dislike of many of the young Ambridge adults ( men are also criticised) is not down to curmudgeonly old posters, here & on other sites, jealous of youth etc., But very much to do with how these characters are written & played.
DeleteAt least they change & develop more than the older characters, definitely for the better. Emma is the prime example but more recently, Lily, who's shown she's not just a spoilt brat at all.
I'd say Fallon &Harrison are pretty sound, but probably well into their thirties so not that young.
Don't think Alice is too bad, despite the drink problem which no one seems to recognise. She's a grafter, doing a job which is stressful but sticking at it - more than one can say for some of the others.
A random list of names culled from a random list of posts written by a group of disparate people does not an ageist, misogynist agenda make, maryellen... I assume that's what you're hinting at, but of course I may be wrong!
DeletePlenty of the male population of Ambridge cop some some stick too when they act like asses. Old and young.
We should remember that Kate is actually 40 years old - perhaps it’s just the way she acts that make her seem more juvenile.
DeleteYes Kate has lived in her cottage at times, including after Phoebe was born, which I think is when it was given to her, and when she returned from South Africa after splitting up with Lucas. She refurbished it then in the hope Phoebe would move in with her but Phoebe refused. Kate lost interest in it and was short of money and Brian was tired of subbing her out, so she rented it out for holiday lets. Not sure who did the work for the lets.
DeleteAnd there was a reference to selling the cottages last year when Debbie was over. Alice seems to be still living in hers so I don’t know if Kate’s was sold. I should think she would have said something about it and we would have heard. Perhaps.
DeleteThe reference to selling cottages was to the other Home Farm cottages, not the ones owned by the daughters (eg. the one Lexi was to live in). Adam said selling them was not on, because they were heavily entailed (or some such).
DeleteAh yes I remember that now. Thanks Maryellen.
DeletePhoebe is a young, sometimes Ambridge-dwelling female. Does anyone dislike her?
ReplyDeleteA YouGov poll reveals:
The age group with no name
The results also reveal a no-man's land age group – an age range that the English language doesn't seem to have a term for. The majority of Brits do not consider a person aged 30-47 to be either young or middle aged.
So you're in the majority in not considering Kirsty, Helen and Kate young, maryellen. Do you have a name for this phase of life?
Phoebe may be the exception that proves the rule, She got away with an accidental pregnancy (= non-serious sex?) without her morals being questioned.
DeleteThe term I use is “young middle-aged”.
She wasn't pregnant, was she? Just thought she might be?
Delete
ReplyDeleteKirsty has visited the Show House so presumably other houses are either completed or near to being finished.
Do we have any idea when people are able to move in?
Also ,I thought Phillip was worried about money-not getting the work or something (I may have dreamt that up) .
If so why buy a 4bedroomed property and then think of adding a Conservatory?
Is he hoping that Kirsty will chip in a fair amount as well?
Lanjan, I think Philip has too much on, that's why there was a question if he'd do a good enough job at Brookfield. I still don't see why 4 bedrooms: master, one for each child(?) and a spare one? I bet Ed and Emma will only have two.
DeleteThere wouldn't be much point Ed and Emma moving into a two-bedroomed house: they're better off at Grange Farm. George sleeping in the living-family-dining-kitchen-utility room that modern houses seem to have? Or Keira sharing her parents' room till she's twelve?
DeleteI'd live in a four-bedroomed room all by myself if I could afford it. A different room for every mood . . . It is odd that Philip's suddenly so rich, though. What is he living in at present?
A four-bedroomed house, of course.
DeleteI prefer Kate to her younger sister.
ReplyDeleteI do not like New Alice -did you notice her drink was a DOUBLE vodka and tonic the other evening ?or New ,ooh ahh I 've got a pseudo Cotswold accent ,Chris.
I doubt if anyone dislikes Pheobe. She seems to live & learn. Only thing, not her but careless SWs, was her unexplained switch from calling Kate by name, to calling her 'mum' which she had reserved previously for Hayley who had been her effective mum.
ReplyDeleteInteresting question, Bootgums, not posed to me, but do have a subjective take on it, with a different age phase : see 40-49 as the anonymous years - a kind of freedom ! It changes at the climacteric, & is busier with earlier stages of child care & developing career, settling into the realities of a relationship, before. A very agreeable stage of life in many ways - you are not so easily labelled.
Wrong blog, got carried away...
What will 4 bedroom house, at Beechwood, in Ambridge actually cost?
ReplyDeleteI still Philip's business is not substanial enough to finance it. Engaging a good quality builder takes a long wait, before the work starts, but he seems to be always available.
I wonder how the new parlour at Brookfield is progressing - isn't Philip doing it.
DeleteRe Philip - why wouldn't you live in a large house if you could? I mean, if you can afford one and manage one - why on earth not? Obversely, if you can't afford or manage one and you still buy one then you're a lunatic...!
ReplyDeleteSo Kate is returning.
ReplyDeleteI just hope it is to say that she is relocating to SA permanantly and so selling/dispanding "Spiritual Home".
I am going to listen live today's episode. Can't wait to hear how Kate will complain about her non-living situation.
ReplyDeleteHow awful is Kate - such a parasite/freeloader.
ReplyDeleteI wonder who she will end up living with?
I wonder about Honeysuckle Cottags with Adam + Ian, as surely their spare bedroom is now vacant since Lexis return to Bulgaria.
DeleteWhat a good episode ! Kate, Brian, Jenny, all played to perfection - bet they enjoyed doing those scenes. Dear Jenny tried so hard to make a go of it, but she lost it eventually, faced with Kate's bemused incomprehension. She's definitely not of this planet, that character, hard to imagine anyone being so unaware of obvious realities. ( surely, surely it can't all be down to sloppy, indulgent upbringing ?!)
ReplyDeleteMore likely down to sloppy indulgent scriptwriting.
DeleteWell, there are rotten eggs, black sheep, bad apples in families - a staple in drama & novels from Shakespeare to potboiler sagas !
DeleteSo good to hear Jennifer talking straight to Kate at last. But who will Kate inflict herself on?
ReplyDeleteThe new penny-wise Brian was refreshing too.
I don't recall that the point of sending Ruairi away to school was to give him a Catholic education. Alice deliberately opted out of private education at the sixth-form stage; Ruairi may be happy to do the same, especially as he's so chummy with Ben.
I rather thought he went away to give Jenny a break, at Brian’s suggestion. Agree he might like to go to a local college now he’s speaking.
DeleteGood for Jennifer to stand up to Kate - and I am glad they didn't wait to tel her off!
DeleteI don't think Ruairi would want to go to a local college and stay in rental home now that posh home is gone. He is a spoiled young man.
What game is Toby playing. When Pip finds out Emma was paid to clean Rickyard - she will again have a screaming episode. Further more ridiculous is that Pip expects Toby to accommodate her schedule as she requires it regardless that he may have prospect to grow the gin business. Does selfish come to mind as a good adjective for Pip?
👏✔️👏✔️
DeleteOh I loved it. My favourite episode in ages. Take that Kate!!! I quietly cheered.
ReplyDeletePip......she’s just me me me and take take take.
She should have thought of how she’d get back to farming complete with child before she had it.
She’ll just have to clap said kid into one of those slings.....either on her back or hung round the front depending on which farm job she’s doing. Bit like those women you see in Africa that manage farming and childcare without moaning.
Thumbs up!
DeleteWell done Brian and then Jennifer for standing up,to Kate.
ReplyDeleteNow who I wonder might dare to stand up to selfish, self-righteous Pip?
Not David Or Ruth.
DeleteJill in a gentle way or Peggy the ruthless perhaps.
Kate is absolutely nasty and Jennifer was still dahling this and dahling that. Eventually Kate was told, quite gently I think considering her rudeness, that she's on her own now. It's not a minute too soon. I don't care where she ends up but just hope she doesn't impose on a generous soul and has to pay her way.
DeleteWell, how convenient!
ReplyDeleteWhilst the majority of ordinary folk with mental health problems have to wait for months for counselling Elizabeth can just pay to ‘ go private’ and see someone tomorrow. How very convenient and unrealistic - but at least it moves the story on and gets treatment underway so that we are spared months of Elizabeth getting worse and worse as she waits for help.
And how appropriate that her counsellor is to be played by the actress who is just leaving playing the practice manager in TV’s ‘Doctors’ serial. A sort of circular progression for Lorna Laidlaw.
I saw that Lorna Laidlaw was to be in TA and tried to think how she would be fitted in! However, having taken up 'Doctors' when the R & H story was going on (and on) I am sad to see her character leaving said show. Quite aside from admiring the various wigs she wore at different times Mrs Tembe was a lovely person!
DeleteOnly see Drs occasionally bit I love the voice of Mrs Tenby - one worth listening to🤗
DeleteIf you can see a private therapist tomorrow, you might suspect that that therapist isn't very good.
DeleteI saw an NHS psychiatrist fairly quickly, as I recall (though not 'tomorrow'), but then had to wait ages for psychotherapy.
The therapist was a bit clichéd: the provision of tissues was reminiscent of 'And how does that make you feel?', which turns up now and again in the Woman's Hour serial slot and is rather cruel, though entertaining enough. And she got right down to brass tacks within minutes. Amazing! Interesting to get another perspective on Elizabeth, though. She's always come across as somewhat spoilt – Daddy's precious, poorly little girl who must never be upset, though making good later by showing that she can work hard, and by appreciating Nigel for his sheer goodness – but even her early life had its particular burdens.
Well yes, Archerphile, as you say convenient.
ReplyDeleteBut perhaps not so unrealistic.
Many ordinary people do pay for their therapy or counselling.
After all many ordinary people have expensive holidays that they pay for. Others may use the same ' available' income to pay for their health needs.
I was thinking, particularly , of the hundreds of young people who desperately need psychiatric help but whose families definitely don’t have the money to pay for private treatment. They just have to wait for months or travel miles to see a therapist.
DeleteObviously Elizabeth herself or other members of the Archer family would be able to afford to get private care but what about the less well off families in Ambridge; the Grundys or the Horobins for example.
I also query that, even when paying for private care, you would be able to arrange an appointment within two days.
As Maryellen said, the Helen/Rob story was played out in real time but perhaps the SWs want the Elizabeth crisis sorted out in time for Freddie to get home.
(Sorry folks, got my cynical hat on this morning after a rough night!)
Archerphile -
DeleteAs I said previously, when I 'broke down' at school and was taken directly to my GP's surgery about 10 am by one of the school secretaries I saw my lovely GP at the end of morning surgery about 11am. He asked questions, did BP etc, looked at my records then told me I had probably been 'fighting' depression for about four years, right back to when husband walked out. He prescribed some sort of tablet, probably anti-depressant (but I have never been interested in learning all the complicated medical names!)
I went home and received a phone call in the afternoon from the surgery telling me to go to our local BUPA hospital at 8 or 9 o'clock (can't remember exactly) THAT EVENING (not shouting, emphasis) to see the psychiarist.
This was about 1993 and when GPs were given a budget to spend on their patients buying treatment from various sources. I believe they still can do as a couple of years ago middle son had a very badly infected in-growing toenail and was sent to a private medical centre in Maidstone for removal of toenail and nail bed and general clean up.
After a fortnight of anti-biotics the infection was still there so he rang the hospital in the morning and was old to attend at 2.30 that afternoon. I suspect private consultations can be arranged at any time.
I can't recall whether the term 'counsellor' was used between Kenton and David but I wish they had used the term psychiarist. I am sure that is what she needs and probably has arranged but nowadays the term 'counsellor' is so often used and these people, trained though they are, have no medical knowledge or background,
Depression is not a state of mind, it is a physical illness which needs professional, informed medical treatment.
Sorry, ranting but have met 'counsellors' and do not have a high opinion! Sorry!
👏✔️👏✔️Well done Jenny & Brian AT LAST!
ReplyDeleteWhen are the main family members to hear of E struggles! Lily will be devastated not to have been told, Jill too-
Why do some people think it is their job to decide what you would want or like rather than ask you.
✔️✔️
DeleteHear hear Lady R.
ReplyDeleteI am appalled that nobody has thought to tell Lily what is going on.
I don't think it is realistic.
They have these big storylines and then suddenly they vanish.
Do we assume that Lily is now happy at Manchester?
Has Russ found his muse?
Has she caught up with her work ?
Has she taken a oart time job in a pub to make ends meet?
Has she never phoned her mum?
(If she had she would have realised all was not well)
The reason Lily hasn't been told in my opinion is because the actress isn't due to appear in this 5week slot of recordings.
If you remember,we didn't hear from Pip or Toby for a bit or Ruth and David .
I got the impression that the gin business is not doing so well for Toby. Too many brands on the market, and I can confirm that and did so some months back. Counted over 30 different brands in my local W.R. I do hope Kenton will not fall for Toby's daft idea, he is in debt already and has initially invested a few thousand in Scruff gin.
ReplyDeleteHurrah, Kate is back and we shall have some listening fun. She has two days to ingratiate herself into someone's home. Who will be the idiot to fall for her hard luck, poor me story.
According to a friend who runs a website where suppliers of artisan and other specialised food products can meet chefs and restauranteurs crying out for unusual offerings to tempt their clients, rum is the next big thing.I have every confidence in T❤️O❤️B❤️Y’s ability to diversify to meet market demand - but his current priority is his responsibility for and relationship with his baby daughter.Now that’s something it’s difficult to fault....
DeleteStasia I picked up on "As you know the gin market is saturated" too. As you and many others commented when the product was 'launched' the market was hardly there in the first place, what, two years ago?
DeleteNot quite on the ball as Tom's keffir which was in a few shops but appeared in many more and supermarkets soon after.
Now what do we think about these strange fruits that TomandNatasha (joined up deliberately!) are proposing to grow and sell?
Why do I too find listening to Kate fun? Even though every fibre of my being screams out in horror at her wretched behaviour, something about her makes me smile. And I have a feeling that we are not alone stasia...
ReplyDeleteIndeed you are not,Gary.
ReplyDeleteI can't put my finger on it but I far prefer listening to her than a lot of of the other female characters.
At least she has got spirit.
Imagine if they were all goody goody and boring like Christine .......
I'm with you GG and Lanjan. Ghastly as she is at least her character is unchanging.
DeleteI am also happy to hear Kate again, I agree she is ghastly but always entertaining. I am pleased that Jennifer finally pointed out that her intransigence was in a major part responsible for the house move. She is forty years old and still amazingly immature in the way she expects her parents to look after her.
DeleteTo continue.....
ReplyDeleteMy younger sister who "does not do computers" meets up once a month with a group of women who listen to the programme.
They have a different theme each month.
One month was about which character would be the first they would throw out of the balloon.
We rarely agree about anything but her choice like mine was Christine.
I am with you and your sister Lanjan. I might just quibble at calling Christine a "character"!
DeleteI don’t think it is that unrealistic that Elizabeth was able to access private counselling within a couple of days. Having had experience with my then teenage daughter, the NHS provision was totally pathetic, we were able to access private care, and six years on we are still shelling out. Our daughter was diagnosed as being on the autistic spectrum at 15, with a hefty dose of anxiety and depression. She still struggles to deal with the outside world and we just hope that in time she will develop coping strategies. We don’t really resent paying for therapy, she is pretty low maintenance as she doesn’t like new clothes ( I replace items as they wear out) she doesn’t want to go on holiday...
ReplyDeleteRegarding telling family, I was relieved that my Mum wasn’t there as I am not sure how she would have reacted, and I certainly played down my concerns to other family members. Similarly when I was going through difficulties myself I didn’t really talk to anyone until I was starting to feel better.
Can absolutely see that, KPnuts; it's bad enough going through some kind of mental & emotional crisis, without talking to all & sundry, collecting all sorts of inappropriate & unhelpful reactions, simply adding to the stress ! Not saying that everyone is like that, simply that one chooses whom one tells.
DeleteKPnuts. Well done to you.
DeleteI just feel so sad that there is such a difference in the time-scale for appointments between private + NHS care. It is so vast.
Very much with all of you who are perversely gleeful at the gruesome Kate's return, there's something very entertaining about indulging in vicarious outrage ! It's also amusing & satisfying when the character gets their comeuppance. Brian was hostile from the moment he unwillingly collected the unwelcome burden of a daughter from the airport, & Jenny was heroically restrained until Kate went too far. Good touch that neither sibling turned up to greet the 'prodigal'. I doubt K. will get the message, too self absorbed & thick skinned, but she will have to make shift for herself. Please, Roy, don't take her in ! Nor Peggy, nor Lilian...let her plead with the Chicken factory for a job, & rent a bedsit, if any exist in the locality.
ReplyDeleteI presume the chicken factory just prepares the dead chickens. There aren't any chickens actually living there, are there? To inflict Kate on a life chicken would be a cruelty too far ...
DeleteWow, that was an incredible performance by Alison Dowling. I was totally absorbed in that episode. As I said awhile back, I have identified with Elizabeth over the years, the character is only a couple of younger than me, youngest of four siblings...thankfully I have not had to deal with being widowed.
ReplyDeleteCongratulations to Alison Downing tonight.
ReplyDeleteBoth excellent. I was in tears by the end.
DeleteVery much as expected, good acting.
ReplyDeleteSo well done, impressive. It was harrowing & utterly convincing.
ReplyDeleteI'll take this moment to say to you, Miriam, congratulations for homing in on Nigel, as did the therapist tonight, releasing the floodgates. I was dismissive of this angle but you were right & I was wrong ! It seems obvious now. So easy to be put off by someone's behaviour, thinking of E.'s hostility & rudeness - I guess it had always been a defence mechanism against secretly believing she's an inadequate person - the sick child, not up to scratch.
Would be interested to hear your take on the episode, Stasia, if you've time & inclination ? Only crit. I'd have is too much too soon, but I suppose they needed to show some shift in that first session, having decided to give it the full 13 mins.
Well, with the right trigger flood gates are often opened.
Delete.........even on a first session with a therapist or councillor?
DeleteShould be explanation mark not a question!!........... I really must go to bed, I'm even beginning to boree myself!!!
DeleteToo painful, for the first time, ever, I was tempted to turn off. But did not.
ReplyDeleteYes, impressive.
I wish I hadn’t been reminded initially of How Does That Make You Feel.
DeleteBrilliant acting I thought.
ReplyDeleteThat was impressive acting.
ReplyDeleteImpressive indeed. An excellent episode.
DeleteAgree with everyone about the wonderful acting tonight. E has had to deal with such a tragedy in losing beloved Nigel, no wonder her grief needed to come out.
DeleteBack to last night's episode - so is Pip and Toby having sex? Baby sitter with benefit?
ReplyDeleteRuthy, didn't The Sainted Toby brag to his brother that if he tided up the cottage and acted less like a dick he would get back into Pip's bed? I reckon that's pretty much his motivation.
DeletePS
maryellen - I'm not judging him on it...!!! 😉
I wasn't expecting the whole episode to be with the counsellor. Brilliantly done, well done to the scriptwriters and actors. I was in tears.
ReplyDeleteVery well done Alison Dowling and very well done SW's for a moving and intelligent episode. Having raised the bar it would be good if more episodes were of this calibre. Not necessarily high drama but less of the risible stuff they keep churning out. I know I know, why do I keep listening. Maybe in the hope of coming across the odd jewel like tonight!
ReplyDeleteConsisely put BB
DeleteI agree with all you say and in what you wrote below.
It must be dreadful for Elizabeth to pass the spot where her husband was killed, daily .
Of course it was always going to be about Nigel. Not only trying to keep his vision for LL alive for Freddie to inherit, but having to pass the spot where he died every day, probably many times. A nightmare for even the strongest person I would imagine.
ReplyDelete✔️✔️
DeleteAnd also the ever-present knowledge (which came out in the anger) that it wouldn’t have happened if he hadn’t been so stupid but had done what he said to her and not gone on the roof. Very hard indeed.
DeleteBrilliant acting by Alison Dowling
ReplyDeleteExcellent and sympathetic scriptwriting.
And well done Mrs Tembe, for unlocking those floodgates that have been holding back the mourning for Nigel for so long.
I thought it was down to Phil in the first place, not hiding his (real or imagined) disappointment in his daughter?
ReplyDeleteWhat was down to Phil? When did he ever show disappointment in Elizabeth, the baby of the family? If the disappointment was imagined by Elizabeth, it wasn't down to Phil.
DeleteInsert word ‘put’ before ‘down’. That’s what I heard. Elizabeth’s feeling of failure in her father’s eyes was what Nigel rescued her from - or didn’t, as it’s turned out. I don’t know if and when he showed disappointment as it was one of my non-listening periods. It reminded me of Philip Larkin’s welll known line about parents. The colossal tragedy is that they have no idea what’s happening.
DeleteOne of the papers once re-phrased Larkin, 'The tendency of one's parents adversely to affect one's life outcomes' (or something similar). I suspect the writer enjoyed working out an 'acceptable' version of the famous phrase : )
DeleteI can well imagine Phil was disappointed when Lizzy didn't pass he 11+ . I was when one of my shoe-dwellers didn't either - despite being the most passionately pro-comprehensive member of the family! Round here, you don't actually 'fail', you're just 'non-selective' - I believe that is supposed to be a less discouraging term...
It's a tricky balance sometimes between encouraging your children and not burdening them with the weight of what you hope for their futures. I wonder how much of Lizzy's 'failure' resurfaced when they realised Freddie was not going to thrive at the Cathedral School?
Apparently the world is about to end because one of the shoe-dwellers has run out of tortilla wraps for tomorrow's lunch : (
DeleteIf Phil's only parenting failure was to be disappointed at his daughter's failure to pass the 11+ perhaps he should have written a parenting manual for those of us poor mortals who tend towards fulfilling Larkin on a regular basis ...
Freddie never looked like thriving at the Cathedral School. It was probably rather unkind to make him go there. The Brookfield Archers changed their minds about putting Pip in for the entrance exam, partly because they knew she was 'a bit brighter than the average', but not a shoo-in, and therefore might have struggled if she had got in. The Cathedral School, I imagine, gave Freddie the benefit of the doubt because Lily was clearly very bright.
DeleteA very late listen for me, but the most superb episode I have ever heard. I was going to write a few Birthday cards whilst doing so but I just sat with my eyes closed and lived every moment with Elizabeth and at the end had tears unashamedly running down my face. So many will have identified with her even if their /my circumstances for help grew from different direction.
ReplyDeleteIf only everyone could source / pay for such instant support. As I have stated before I was so lucky GP wise, when feeling you have failed because you feel as E. did pre Nigel it is hard to believe that people can give you evidence to the contrary. Somewhat “It’s a wonderful life wonderful life” situation. My Aunt whom l lost 7 yrs ago once told her Dr on a home visit in front of us that it it were not for myself and Mr R she would have been dead long ago and how much support and joy after her husband - my mother’s brother died we had given her. I / we were a little embarrassed that this was said and as such a private person very surprised. It was also within the years of my mums dementia but I loved all that I was able to do and it does come as a shock to realise you made that difference. So press on Elizabeth behind you all the way.....
I thought the point of the first session was to probe Elizabeth's reality, to bring her to the point where.she could express some of her deeper buried feelings & start the painful process of confronting them, without which no understanding of objective reality, no healing would be possible.
ReplyDeleteI think last night’s episode was the first two-hander The Archers have ever produced.
ReplyDeleteAlthough that technique could not be used often, it certainly focussed the mind entirely on Elizabeth’s situation and gave one a much deeper understanding of what had been going on in her mind and he opportunity to hear what good actors we have in T A.
I want to congratulate the ‘new’ Editor on taking the chance to experiment with the format of this episode which, I think, worked brilliantly.
👏🏻✔️👏🏻✔️👏🏻✔️⭐️
Delete✔✔✔
Delete✔️✔️✔️
DeleteIt must have had practical advantages too - one scriptwriter to write up the counselling sessions in one stylistically continuous episode, rather than several scriptwriters trying to juggle the counselling process with other storylines in several episodes extending over months. I wish we had had a similar episode with Rob facing the psychiatrist’s chair.
DeleteYears ago Kathy went to a counselling session after she betrayed Sid with her former policeman boyfriend Dave. From what I can remember she was just talking about herself for the duration of the episode with no one else involved, things have certainly moved on.
DeleteI think that there has been a two-hander episode before, but not sure between whom. I have a feeling it was in the Helen/Rob situation, it just rings a bell.
DeleteI had that feeling as well, but can't remember who or when.
DeleteI remember the Kathy/counsellor episode. It came across as very real. Kathy cringed when Sid came into a room.
DeleteI think there was an episode of just Peggy, or Peggy and Jill a few years ago, also very affecting.
DeleteI actively chose not to listen to the repeat of Wednesday’s episode, it was so intense first time.
'To probe Elizabeth's reality' - beautifully, and so accurately put.
ReplyDeleteAnd the reality is chronic low self-esteem engendered in childhood accompanied by fear of failure, complicated by loss of husband’s compensatory support and anger at his betrayal of his word to her, and the implications of that for the relationship she thought they had?
ReplyDelete...plus with the twins gone as well there is nothing left of the life she had except the weighty responsibility of administering the Pargeter inheritance alone and without the licence. Enough to bring anyone to breaking point.
DeleteMy sister gave me 'The Lost Art of Keeping Secrets' for Christmas. I think the mum in that had quite a lot in common with Elizabeth. I hope she doesn't choose the solution the book mum chose. (I won't say any more because it will spoil the story - you'll have to read it for yourselves.)
DeleteCan I recommend everyone interested in Elizabeth and Alison Dowling head to the BBC Archers website where Alison writes about the challenges of playing Elizabeth's breakdown, and how her own experiences helped her understand what was needed.
ReplyDeleteThere are several photos, so be warned,
There is also a recording of her telling Jill and Phil about Cameron Frazer wanting her to have an abortion - another very emotional scene,
And also a recording of Elizabeth talking to dear old Nelson Gabriel - so lovely to hear his voice again!
This was announced at the end of the programme last night and I spent a considerable amount of time looking for it.
DeleteI don't understand how I could have missed it as I was able to find and listen to the Nelson clip and the others.
I will try to find it again.
It wasn't on my screen last night, but is now and I have read it.
DeleteLast nights episode deserves an OSCAR !
Or whatever the radio equivalent is.
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
DeleteI, for one, think Jeremy Howe, as the new editor, is starting to show his prescence and I love this.
ReplyDeleteHe understands The Archers and its audience, which is so essential.
I fully agree. Have enjoyed TA and the recent storylines a lot more than when the old editor was still in charge. And yet there was no real break - everything seems to follow logically and continue as though the stories could not have developed in any other way. Excellent scriptwriting and excellent acting all around. This includes the adaptation of the Canterbury Tales for me as well.
DeleteI agree the new editor has learned from Sean O’Connor’s editorship and the recent treatment of mental health issues has returned us to the seriousness of purpose and the standard of scripting and acting we had 3 years ago. Long may it last!
DeleteCarolyn. I have just read your post from 8.04pm, Feb. 13th, in which I was mentioned.
ReplyDeleteMy idea was right this time - but more often than not, I am totally wrong.
Thanks for the acknowledgement (spelling?).
It was a moving and slightly, disturbing episode, but at last
Lizzie is opening up and expressing her feelings.
A loss of a loved one is so difficult to, not only accept but adjust to, which Lizzie is still struggling with.
I listened again today to see if there was anything else I could pick up that I didn't yesterday evening.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I did wonder was because I was so impressed by the excellent acting by Alison Dowling did that make me more sympathetic towards Elizabeth?
I thought from what she said,Phil came out of it very badly.
When David "failed" his 11+ he was very annoyed with him but when she din't get to go to Grammar School he was very kind and sympathetic.
Likewise when she was expelled and faked her A levels.
Another thing I picked up on was that she said she kept refusing Nigel's offer of marriage.
Why?
If she really loved him,why would she not have said yes when he first asked her?
Did she still crave excitement and realised that if she married Nigel her life would not be as exciting?
Initially it was Shula he fancied .
She has not had it easy -her heart problems and then her husband's tragic death.
However there was a long period when she seemed fine-when she seduced Roy,when the twins were younger.
It would seem that I am wrong and it does all stem from Nigel's death but I really thought that it was the Freddie and Lily situations that had caused this Breakdown.
I thought that the Psychiatrist sounded like Anna.
I hope that in time there won't be a similar storyline with Will because his loss was equally as tragic.
Good point about Will, as to Nics untimely death.
DeleteTo me it is Joe who will need support, as he still feels responsible, that Nic cut her hand whilst helping him sort out his "stuff". Also she told him about Matt, as she was dying.
I don't feel more sympathetic towards Elizabeth but to be fair, she doesn't play the card, I've had a hard life, so be nice to me.
DeleteI fear that this type of storyline may involve Mia rather than Will.
As for Joe, hopefully he'll take it all with him.
Amazing, what an outstanding therapist. Life history and experiences in one session. Elizabeth will be free from depression by next week. How did that make you feel listener? Wrong, wrong.
ReplyDeleteBrilliant acting from the Actor playing Elizabeth, very moving.
The therapist is NOT a psychiatrist.
Sorry Stasia ,my mistake.
DeleteTotally agree stasia.
DeletePerhaps Mia did.
ReplyDeleteOn second thoughts, Tracy.
DeleteThe revelation of an entire life in 13 minutes was not realistic. But was it dramatically convincing? Almost. I'd have preferred a bit more realism. Many years ago, Mike Tucker attended group therapy, and was as right as rain in no time. Not believable. But I can't fault Alison Dowling's acting.
ReplyDeleteWell, I also wrote,'too much, too soon,' but in the moment it was convincing on the ear & it was only the beginning as there's lots more to unravel about E.'s interpretation of her life, lots more to reframe. At least, it showed a number of aspects to explore : her anger with Nigel for dying, her version of what her parents indulgence was really about ( their own fears), what her repeated rebellions & failures actually say ,& so on. I suppose it was a snapshot last night of what would realistically happen over many weeks, if the process is working.
DeleteSurely if it had been more realistically drawn out in real time listeners would have been complaining that they were bored with the story line and wanted it finished!
DeleteYes Sarnia, they sure would.
DeleteOf course it was brave of the new editor to do it in one episode, but, in general it would seem to have been the right way to go.
Now we will mostly be content with reasonable updates from Lizzie to a sympathetic Shula, Kenton or A N Other, as to how she is progressing.
And I hope, as she progresses she will be offered appropriate medication for the ongoing depression, which does not automatically fade away as treatment progresses.
Just listened - my goodness. Agree that it may be too much too soon, but sometimes one has no way of stopping.
DeleteI missed listening yesterday so only caught up on Elizabeth tonight, very moving.
DeleteNo idea whether or not it was realistic for her to open up so much so quickly. But it seemed to me that it was a bit like a dam bursting - once a weak point had been breached, all the pent-up emotion came pouring out in a rush. I suspect the rebuilding after the resulting deluge will be a rather longer operation.
Is Will's Valentine card from Tracy? She's fun, but not conspicuously sensitive.
ReplyDeleteAm I alone in finding the therapist just a bit irritating? Elizabeth let out her frustrations and in that the therapist deserves praise but I for one would baulk at her text book calmness in view of my distress. I am though very cynical about these sessions. As you know I have experienced the greatest grief of all but have worked through it and am still working through it myself knowing myself as no outsider could. Maybe I am lucky in being able to do so. Some people like Elizabeth internalise too much and end up exploding as she has. I hope it works for her but as for me, no thank you!
ReplyDeleteYou're not alone. She gave the impression of reading from a well-rehearsed script, and that she wouldn't have known what to do if Elizabeth hadn't responded predictably.
DeleteI suspect the practitioner is well versed in maintaining an unnerving silence if the 'patient' can't/won't respond to overtures !
DeleteAs it was, maybe the quiet calm acts as an antidote to explosive emotions; rather reassuring to the person in turmoil sitting opposite - a sense that the world hasn't collapsed, there is a way forward.
They all tend to sound like that. It's as Carolyn says.
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DeleteAs it was unaddressed, couldn't the card be for Mia? Emma was very sensitive and caring towards Will tonight. Maybe she's nicer than I've given her credit for although I dislike her chip on shoulder attitude at times.
ReplyDeleteRegarding E and all the comments about the episode. I agree about the fantastic acting. E's regarding herself as a disappointment to her parents could be her imagination whereas maybe they were just a little disappointed that she didn't pass her exams. Quite a natural reaction of the vast majority of caring parents.
Interesting idea, Anneveggie. And if Mia and her young admirer have plans for Monday, she'd hardly be happy about cancelling them to go with the little children to a theme park with her step-aunt.
DeleteEmma is definitely improving with age. Let's face it, with Susan as a mother, she didn't exactly grow up learning tact.
I stand corrected, she had an impecable role-model to follow - the ever-patient Neil.
Thanks for figuring out the relationship between Mia and Emma, OWIAS! Not sure I could have done it.
DeleteI hardly dare say it, I switched off during the session with the therapist, so unreal In my opinion, I kept hoping the subject matter would change and was glad when the end came. Hope we don't have anymore such sessions. I grant you the acting was good.
ReplyDeleteOh, no, I'm afraid it was very real.
DeleteAfter reading the comments here, unusually I looked on fb and it was all tears, except one: than goodness it'll be back to normal tomorrow, that's how I felt. Perhaps because we are not present at such sessions; people may break down and confide in us which is not the same. Yes, excellent acting.
DeleteAnneveggie/Owias - interesting suggestions.
DeleteSarnia .I think it unrealistic for the following reasons.
The first session would be largely taken up with the parameters of the sessions, confidentiality etc . It is important for the counsellor and client to establish a trusting professional relationship.
The first sessions the counsellor would seek to understand the underlying causes of the depression, not just take the clients view of things.
No counsellor of any worth would say I want to talk about Nigel, certainly not in the first session, this is more than likely to make the person clam up. If at a later stage the more likely approach would be to feed back and ask for clarification.
I could go on.
I accept that the outpourings were real, just the time frame totally inappropriate.
I'm betting on Mia sending the card. It is routine these days to send Valintines to family and best friends. Women's hour did a piece on Galentine's day when women send cars and presents to their best friends. I'd never heard of this before.
ReplyDeleteMy brother has sent us all cards since he was a little boy. Course we all still pretend we don't know who sent them
I wondered if Mia had sent the card.
DeleteThe possibility that it was intended for Mia not Will also crossed my mind, I don’t think it was clear if there was a name on it.
Tracey could also do something that crass......perhaps this is the next unsolved Ambridge mystery.
Poor Will is going to have a hard time dealing with the anniversary of Nic’s death, I wonder if there will be much focus on it.
I mentioned further up that Mia not wanting to go to the theme park may be related to the anniversary of her mother’s death. I remember Nic saying she was planning to take everyone out for the day when Brian called by to see Will. Will wasn’t in and Brian told Nic that the day out might have to wait because he needed Will to work. Wasn’t the day out planned for the theme park? Perhaps Emma didn’t know and Mia doesn’t want to say.
DeleteI said Mia last night thinking that she might have wanted to cheer up Will, then changed my mind to Tracy, we might find out tonight.
DeleteSo Helen is ready for the next step of relationship with Lee - after just 2 dates, and still in secret. What will she be telling her family - who is baby sitting? She almost did blab out her history, but got preempted by the loud music.
ReplyDeleteThat's how it started with with Rob, the lust taking over. At least we've had some explanation from Lee who's no longer acting like the victim and I accept it.
DeleteTo T❤️O❤️B❤️Y on Valentine’s Day Plus One
ReplyDeleteCome roam with me on Lakey Hill
And harken to the birds’ sweet trill,
Or sit beside Am’s silv’ry till
On pastures fair to gaze our fill.
O’er brook and field eyes will range -
Till Rosie needs a nappy change!
(When you come for a walk with me,
Please leave her with Jill and Mr B.)
Oh yes Maryellen.
DeleteWorth waiting the extra day for!
Splendid!
DeleteI don't think that Emma need worry that it is her that Mia doesn't want to be with.
ReplyDeleteThe reason could be any one of the ones suggested earlier.
Again any one of the suggestions about the Valentine Card is plausible.
I would quite like to hear more of Mia.
Perhaps the next "issue" -not that I want one particularly -could be one about youngsters who are caring for younger siblings or a parent for whatever reason.
I hate to see children not having a proper childhood through no fault of their own.
Sorry, Tobes, the Am’s silvr’y till should be till (ref to river not village shop!)
ReplyDeleteOh yes,and should be our eyes. Copy editing not my strong point....
Deletetill? rill?
DeleteWas all that nonsense with David last night supposed to be amusing? I found it to be really, really creepy. In real life I genuinely think that he would have received a visit from the police afterwards! What kind of middle-aged man skulks about a forest spying on teenagers getting off with each other? And then interfering!!? He'd better be careful he doesn't get himself a reputation...
ReplyDeletevery creepy indeed...
DeleteNot awareness that any under-age activity on his property would be considered his responsibility, then?
DeleteIf my teenage son or daughter told me that a middle aged man had approached them whilst they were snogging (or more!) and told them to stop what they were doing I would be having his hard drive confiscated quicker than you could say "Creepy Behaviour"!
DeleteWhen did David become the Taliban?
..and if I thought that my young teenage daughter had been engaging in sexual activity and the owner of the property, whatever the age or gender, suspected as much but had done nothing about it, I'd have both their guts for garters. I'm afraid we have to differ on this one, Gary, but that's probably a mother's perspective. Perhaps I'm the Taliban!
DeleteI'm sure you are nothing like them Sarnia! 😉
DeleteSo my first instinct was right, Mia at Poppy's suggestion, and Will sounded really nice for once.
ReplyDeleteWill was foul to Tracy.
DeleteHe certainly was maryellen! And in front of his daughter? Perfect way to show Mia his contempt for women he considers "past it"...
DeleteLilian is immediately taking Kate in - so why didn't she do the same to Brian + Jennifer, when they needed somewhere to live, at very short notice.
ReplyDeletePerhaps she did and I missed it.
Lilian will rue the day, when she allowed Kate to move in.
Can forsee msny problems.
I think she did offer but they declined.
DeleteI don't think Brian's ego would ever have survived being beholden to Justin for food and lodging.
Or perhaps even the Dower House isn't big enough to live in if it means another stint being under the same roof as his garrulous and cackling sister-in-law. ('Though he could repay the compliment of 'testing' the contents of the cellar ...)
Just how old is Kate?
ReplyDeleteShe sounded about fourteen when she was talking to Lillian.
But I did like her description of Ruairi as "The Princeling"!
ReplyDeletePots and kettles?
DeleteWhat I am longing to hear about are "The Gills"
ReplyDeletea) Why did they insist on such an early sale/completion
b) What are they doing to Home Farmhouse
c) Who exactly are they
d) Will they move directly into The Cupboard, never to be heard from.
a) i) To annoy Brian
Deleteii) To make a swift profit by hiring it as a New Year party venue
b) Preparing it for AirBNB
c) i) Brian's Nemeses
or ii) Agents for Tracey Horrobin who is waiting for the place to be completely transformed before announcing 'Oh, by the way, I won the Lottery.'
d) More likely The Cellar, to see if Brian left any interesting bottles hidden in a dark corner.
All the talk about Nic Grundy has reminded me of the Grundy Family’s Dark Secret. It won’t die with Joe Grundy because both his grandsons know that Nic was the hit and run driver whose crime the three of them covered up - so far so successfully, but will it emerge, and how? Does it take Matt Crawford’s return toestablish the truth?
ReplyDeleteKate sounded 16 and Ruairi sounded 30
ReplyDelete