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Life in Ambridge: Comments week of February 7, 2019
Life in Ambridge: Comments week of February 7, 2019
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Life in Ambridge
THIS POST IS CLOSED "longer off topic comments' - Episode 8 Life Outside Ambridge Beach Chairs
Archerphile - last comment on the post I just close. Good point - where is Helen, Pat and Tony and Jonny. Don’t thing Helen will go along with “another” Natasha idea. Tom is definitely showing his spineless self
ReplyDeleteNatasha has hit Pat’s weak spot. When it comes to her children’s partners she’s either over anxious about it and then alienates them, as she did when John was involved with Johnny’s mother, and initially with Helen and Rob, which made Helen secretive, or she falls over herself to be pleased and blinds herself to the problems. Whilst Pat can’t control their choice of partners she could and should have more to say about the farm decisions. Is it because she and Tony announced their retirement a few years ago? How does that work? Have they handed over decision making to Tom and Helen?
DeleteCaught up on about 10 episodes last night - sometimes I like to have a long listen...
ReplyDeleteLexi is leaving - Hurrah!
Brian pled guilty - Hurrah!
Jill has a boyf - Hurrah!
Pip is a monstrous bully - Boo!
Emma is ghastly - Boo!
Joe is unintelligible - Boo!
Natasha is - Now don't know to be honest! Maybe she is just excited to have a new boyfriend that she can share a new exciting project with. Moving a bit too fast for some of our liking and certainly not backward in coming forward, but maybe that's what the farm needs? I dunno...
Kirsty & Philip are both thinking that they are drinking in the last chance saloon & this just might be as good as it gets, so why not? - Meh!
Summed it up nicely GG!😃
Delete👍👏
DeleteI agree with Esscee
DeleteI have a soft spot for Emma
I will give you ✔️✔️,✔️Gary.out of ✔️✔️✔️✔️✔️
I really don't like Natasha but think it could be a good storyline.
Lovely cosy picture Ruthy, and that looks like our Bella cat enjoying the fire.
ReplyDeleteNatasha finds two acres of land, a field just up the road!!! I was under the impression that the farming community usually spread the word amongst themselves. Tom didn't know? Will the others agree to dipping into the Justin money pot? I wonder if she is really all she claims to be as a business person. Nice to be able to spend someone else's money. She has obviously been on one those jargon based business courses entitled, 'Blue sky thinking' how to become Rich without really trying. First principle, find a dimwit called Tom Archer.
ReplyDeleteI have a plan, Brian should encourage the partners to put pressure on Kate to remove the unused Yurts, sell the land to pay the fine, buy the two acres and build their dream home.
Absolutely agree with you re Natasha, Stasia, and love your plan for Brian too. Perfect solution 👍
Delete👍
DeleteI have also posted the same idea of Brian + Jennifer, building their new home, which to me, is a realistic + the most cost effective solution. After all, there must be some land available at Home Farm.
DeleteGood idea and very similar thoughts.
Stasia,
DeleteWord on the street is that Natasha's find is a nice little plot of land called 'Low Mead'. And it's going for a song! Only someone with Natasha's business accumen would be able to snatch such a prime piece of arable land from under the noses of the slow-witted locals
; )
😂 I thought she was after it to build a Tom and Natasha love nest, or rather a Natasha and Tom nest.
DeleteRuthy. A very warm and inviting room, love the cat.
ReplyDeleteLovely, Ruthy. Looking forward to cosying up by the fireside this evening.
ReplyDeleteCat is currently flat on his back, snoring.
P tbY ,I loved the comment you made about Blodwen at about 10pm last night.
ReplyDeleteOnly saw it this morning.
I have an idea for the pair of them.
They should buy a cart-maybe Joe could help out and a horse-from Joe or Shula --and go round the area with a sign saying
"Why not lettuce deliver your fruit and vegetables"
I think they should do that independently from the rest of Bridge Farm
She could wear one of those tall black hats so she looked the part .
Definition. Blodwen, Alternative Welsh word for, Natasha will Bleed you dry.
Delete👍
DeleteI'm not so sure that Tom is being spineless.
DeleteTom has always been very ambitious and, I think, always thought he should - 'be in charge'.
At last a woman comes along, he admires her, she too is ambitious, and the plans she puts to him, exactly match his hidden desires to run the family business his way.
Sorted !
In reply to MrsP - we shall see if Tom is spineless - he hasn't come up with any ideas of his own - and is easily convinced by Natasha on her ideas and spending their money.
DeleteTheoretically, that picture is how my cottage should look.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't.
Mine too MrsP, and it might do if there was just the cat in it, but two large dogs make quite sure that it's liberally strewn with chewed boxes, dust and lots and lots of hair. Roll on the warmer weather so that they can lose some of the fur in the garden!
Deletestasia - it was because Kate refused to move Spiritual home else where is why Home Farm was sold. Also, money from selling the home will go towards cleanup and fine.
ReplyDeleteMaybe Kate will think again when she realises that her only option is to live in one of her yurts - there will be no room for her with Brian and Jennifer.
DeleteKate has her own cottage so does not need to live in a yurt or cox and box with Rory.
DeleteLexi is leaving (Au revoir)
ReplyDeleteBrian is guilty (Yay!)
Jill has a new boyfriend (Phwoar!)
Emma is ghastly (Tell Jane Austen)
Joe is unintelligible (Tell Edward Kelsey)
Pip is a monstrous bully (Tell it to the Marines)
Natasha is ......Welsh (Croeso)
😂🤣😂
DeleteShe is indeed Welsh. Ach y fi !
DeleteNid yw hynny’n neis iawn, Stone the Crows! 😀 (My predictive text went wild there.)
DeleteMy last refers to Natasha not her Welsh nationality .My late wonderful wife was Welsh
DeleteI took it to be Natasha. She and Phil the Build may find they have a common bond.....
DeleteNatasha is giving me "alarm bells". By that I mean is that the more I here of her, the more I remember Rob.
ReplyDeleteHelen must see through her, and tell Tom some home truths. Or will it be Kirsty?
Perhaps this will lead to my desired S/L - Tom + Kirsty finally get together, this time it is true love,leading to a quick + secret marriage.
There has to be at least one marriage a year in Ambridge, so why not - unless Jill + Len beat them to it.
It is possible but realistically, highly improbable.
Well, so where do you place Leonard's accent? I think he and Jill go well together, twirling round the day room at the Laurels. What's got into Rex tonight? He kept nagging at Toby, then followed him to Rickyard and then nagged again, is he going to tell Pip that Emma did the hoovering and would she really care?
ReplyDeleteLeonard sounds just like Paul Copley always does. Very disstinguishable.
DeleteRex was unbelievably noxious tonight.
Eaten up with jealousy!
DeletePaul Copley- usual voice, but less whiney.
DeleteIn that he usually, or often plays a character who whines a lot.
Jill was all girly. A bit difficult to take in an eighty plus woman IMO.
Not sure I would have recognised Paul Copley without knowing in advance. He's less 'ee bah gum' than usual, which is to the good. He didn't say all that much. David's being stuck for something to say came across as his lack of social skills more than not having anything in common with Leonard. Why would anyone be dumbstruck at someone saying their son is in Singapore? Is David really limited to farming talk?
DeleteJill and Leonard may be lovebirds (now where did I last hear that word?). I wonder what they have planned for St Valentine's Day? A nice cream tea, perhaps.
I thought the whole Rex/Toby business was pathetic.
ReplyDeleteRex never was such a wimp as he is now.
Why should Toby clear the house anyway?
Why would Pip care if he had paid someone else to do it?
More to the point
Why did he need his pyjamas?
Yes. I think we're meant to find Rex more simpatico than Toby (the latter has a long way to go before he grows into the image Maryellen bestows on him), but he's so peevish and resentful sometimes that it gets quite difficult. Why are the Fairbrother brothers living (a) with each other and (b) with poor old Bert?
DeleteI have often wondered why they have found themselves shacked up with a man in his eighties! Just doesn't ring true to me that a couple of self proclaimed go-getting guys in their twenties would stick around Ambridge sharing a house with Bert!
DeleteThe brothers have been living together to facilitate those fraternal exchanges like tonight’s in which the discerning listenercan appreciate how much more simpatico T❤️O❤️B❤️Y is than Rex!
DeleteJill was nervous.
ReplyDeleteIt. Is far worse taking your new boyfriend to meet your children than taking your new boyfriend to meet your parents.
I like Leonard.
He was just like I thought he would be.
Good Luck zillion.
Tip Carole out of your cottage and move him in with you.
Reckon caroles already upped and gone. Hasn’t been heard or spotted in months.
DeleteFor all ambridgeons know she could be laid there dead as a dodo.
Another example of Jill being distracted - her youngest is having a breakdown, her best friend is awol and all she can think about is new love. What with Jill, Tom and Helen all looking the other way, Ambridge will be unrecognisable in a few months. Anyone could sneak in and take over...oops I think they already have, cariad.
DeleteNot Zillion !Jill!
ReplyDeletePerhaps Zillion is what Leonard calls Jill when they're alone together!
ReplyDeleteI loved hearing Leonard tonight as someone said - just as Paul Copley usually sounds, just slightly more refined. Jill seemed very nervous and sounded like a teenager bringing home her first boyfriend. Ruth was lovely for once but David - what a lumpen performance in front of Leonard! He’s obviously only been mixing with other farmers for far too long and forgotten the art of conversation!
ReplyDeleteI liked Leonard too. I really hope we've been introduced to a character who's straightforward and nice, and who has no complicated ulterior motives.
Delete👍
DeleteDoes Ambridge need another aging male with a non-rural accent to add to its existing collection? If yes, I would have preferred Lewis to be resurrected. He could have come to the rescue of Lower Loxley and still found time for tea in the Orangery with Jill plus a spot of out of hours dancing.......
ReplyDeleteAll credit to the new editor for eliminating the shoutiness from the programme (apart from Pip Archer’s recent outburst) and introducing some sunniness instead. Tom Archer sounds happier than I have ever heard before, Rosie and the regulars had a love in at The Bull, Alastair and Shula are positively purring at each other, and now late-flowering romance is in the air! Can it last?
ReplyDeleteDo you think Alistair and Shula will get back together? They seem to be happier in each other’s company now they are divorcing! Could it all have been a wake up call? Maybe it would be better to be just good friends! We will have to see!
DeleteMaryellen, you are quite right, there has been much less ‘shoutiness’ recently, apart from Pip and a bit between Jennifer and Brian last week. In fact, I am very happy with the way the new Editor is handling things.
DeleteI could do without the rather silly Natasha storyline, but otherwise things seem to be jogging on nicely in Ambridge recently with just one or two big stories (Notably Elizabeth’s and Lower Loxley’s crisis ) to spice things up and stop the programme becoming too mundane.
In fact, I am a happy Archerphile these days! 😊
✔️✔️✔️Archerphile.
Delete✔✔✔
DeletePlus, far more natural conversations.
DeleteTo whit Ruth and David in the kitchen after meeting Leonard.
I don't think that Ambridge does need another ageing male with a non local accent but I do think it is nice that the new addition seems to be a good one.
ReplyDeleteI would have been most disappointed had Leonard had an accent like Justin or Oliver,
I don't know why the editor likes a Yorkshire accent but since I do too, I am happy that Leonard is from that County
Two recent introductions are from Wales
There are untouched Counties -Northamptonshire ,Derbyshire,Leicestershire (Me duck) not too far away and since Vicki and Hayley left there have been no "brummies"
Yorkshire is God's own County so why do these Yorkshire men keep coming to Ambridge?
DeleteBorsetshire isn't even a major County!
Must be Ambridge women that attract them Lanjan! 😉
DeleteI shall catch up this afto as usual, parents lived in Lincoln for years, plenty of 'me ducks' there!
DeleteI am getting a bit confused as to where to post - I have just put a reply underneath PtbY’s post last night but perhaps it should have gone here. I have started to read back over old posts and keep finding all sorts that I didn’t see...
ReplyDeleteEv, I wondered about Shula and Alastair. It would be great if they can continue to be friends and not be uncomfortable with each other. However the decree nisi was mentioned a few times and I couldn’t help thinking is there going to be a u-turn before the absolute.
More likely I suppose that Alastair will get his own place now the Lovell James deal is done. Perhaps they’ll have a relationship ongoing without actually living together any more.
Miriam, I like your idea of Kirsty helping Tom see Natasha for what she is. Perhaps the double date will be just the thing for them both to realise they should be with each other.
Friend-to-stay, just caught up with TA, & blogs - both pretty lively. How to start/not inadvertently repeat what's been said ?
ReplyDelete2 amusing double entendres : David being thankful that the hormone crazy teenage yrs. are long over, whilst the hormones of his dear 87 yr. old mum are racing madly, as she looks out for Leonard's arrival. Then Shula showing her male nudes off to very nearly completely divorced husband. Is she coming on to him, or what ?! If she isn't a pretty odd way of trying to be chatty/friendly, if she is, most unsubtle. I suspect the latter with the qualification that she is unconscious of doing just that. Shula is not an aware person, so that would fit.
Poor old Bert, living with two such stupid young men, & having to confront the volatile E. with yet more complaints. HOWEVER, this may be the looming turning point for E. : she'll shout, scream, burst into loud sobs & Bert, font of homely wisdom, kindness & calm, will become her first counsellor...
ReplyDeletehope..
DeleteBert as the Patience Strong of Ambridge?
DeleteUnsung Healer of Souls ?
ReplyDeleteHave to bow to increasing suspicions here concerning Natasha - she's so manipulative ! Not only buying unknown swathes of land with Bridge Farm money but coming over all matey with Kirsty -- why ? The Welsh are very friendly ( speaking from. 4 yr. sojourn in West, Welsh speaking Wales) but a jolly foursome with the woman Tom jilted at the altar & her BF seems excessive, bizarre. To what end ?
ReplyDeleteTo borrow from GG & several others :
ReplyDeleteRex ( get a life !)
Toby (grow up)
Pip ( ditto)
Jill ( enjoy time with the delightful Leonard, let the children, grandchildren great grandchild make shift for themselves)
Emma ( have more fun! Where did you get the time to clean filthy Rickyard ? Hope the waster paid you well)
I don't think Elizabeth needs a Counsellor.
ReplyDeleteShe needs a sensible woman like Peggy to go and talk to her or even Emma.
I keep saying that the days of pussy footing around her should be over.
I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't Emma who does eventually get through to her unless Lily makes a quick trip home .
Now I find that surprising.
Why hasn't Lily nipped down to see her one weekend or even one Saturday or Sunday?
Answer I suppose-Lily is scheduled to speak during this 5weeks like Harrison ,Fallon or Lilian for example
She's pretty sick, Lanjan, it's the Padre or the shrink she needs. My thinking was Bert could fill both roles - instinct can count for more than training at times !
DeleteI’d like to hear Stasia’s view on family/friends v. professional help in a situation like Elizabeth’s. We’ve mentioned before how easy it is for the best-intentioned family member or friend to get it wrong.
DeleteProfessionals can also get it wrong sometimes. So much is dependent on the personal qualities of the ' helper' & the rapport between helper & helper when so little, relatively, is understood about the mind & the emotions.
DeleteExactly ,Carolyn.
DeleteIt should be up to Elizabeth to say who she would be able to talk to.
To be honest I wouldn't have thought it would have been Jolene but I would like to be proved wrong.
Final line should obviously start with - I don't suppose
ReplyDeleteI am still hoping it is Bert who helps Lizzie adress her problems. Surely he is someone she can listen to and not shout at.
ReplyDeleteShe needs counselling to try and put Freddie's misdemeanor into context and the memories of Nigel's untimely death, which all these years on, she still cannot accept, so understandable.
She needs to be able to adjust, but.not forget. This can be so difficult, even after many years.
Elizabeth, who is displaying all symptons of depression, stress and anxiety, does not need 'counselling.' She needs medical treatment from a psychiatrist! Been there, done that. No-one knows how bad they are until they are 'better.'
ReplyDeleteAfter a panic attack one morning at school one of the secretaries took me round to my surgery. (I thought I was having a heart attack!). Luckily it was a time when GPs had their own budgets and could spend them as they wished on medical matters. My doctor sent me to a psychiatrist at a private hospital that very evening and I was then treated with drugs and consultations and it was two years before I came off the tablets.
Hopefully someone realises how bad she needs medical intervention and forces her to seek treatment.
I hope it doesn't come to 'force'. She needs understanding, not coercion.
DeleteHow wrong I was about Lizzie in that she wouldn't shout at Bert.
ReplyDeleteI found that upsetting and very unsettling in that she talked to a well loved senior citizen in that way.
Thank you Tim Stimson, you have brought Elizabeth to her knees at last.
ReplyDeleteNow she can get help, and rebuild.
Miriam I wrote a reply to your comment earlier but pressed sign out instead of "publish "
ReplyDeleteI did mention that I didn't think that Bert was the right person to speak to Elizabeth because she has already been extremely rude to him.
She did not listen to him then and then this evening it happened again.
I agree with you Spicycushion.
She does not need counselling.
I am given to understand that some medics do not necessarily believe that it is the correct or best way to proceed.
My question once again is "Why did the doctor not insist that she returned to see him and why did Shula not check that she did so?
Perhaps the doctor did say Elizabeth should go back. When Shula asked if she could go in with E she said no, and when Shula asked what was said, Elizabeth told Shula, oh just the usual stuff. I think realistically Shula would have visited Elizabeth again since then and not just assumed she’s done enough, but perhaps all the family know Jolene have been visiting, and have agreed to leave prickly Elizabeth to her. Perhaps it is a portrayal of how some people back off someone with depression because they don’t know how to handle it themselves.
DeleteI think there has been some misunderstanding here: the point I was making and I think others were too, was that it couldnt be left to family or friends - Lily, Jolene ot whoever - to talk Elizabeth through her depression, she needed help from mental health professionals. (Preferably ones that are better actors than Jolene and Bert!)
DeleteI doubt that the rest of the family knew that Jolene was going to see Elizabeth.
DeleteHad Ruth known I feel sure she would have felt that she should help too.
......and where is Pip?
Elizabeth came to her rescue once.
Am I alone in thinking that Lily should have been told?
Gosh we are not there but we know that she has depression.
How come the locum couldn't see it?
..........Jolene I think I may have depression.....Really we hardly noticed! How dare the SW's milk this very serious condition by using it as a climax to so many episodes of TA. Having everyone in her family pussy footing around her with an "Elizabeth's not her usual self" or similar. It's perfectly acceptable for the average person not to recognize all the telltale signs of depression and.....as in coercive control, but to have everyone wringing their hands and not knowing what to do all the time everytime her name is mentioned would be laughable if it weren't so sad. There is a plethora of intelligent professional people in her family and friends who would have called her to account (see Spicycushion) by now. However, I imagine that would not have suited the writers who in their turn want to squeeze every ounce out of another 'issue' led story. That in itself would be forgivable if the whole thing hadn't been handled or written in such a clunky way. Save us from staff writers. 😟
ReplyDeleteWell done, SWs, I say - Bert was the catalyst ( poor bloke, getting an earful) & enter Jolene at the right moment. I can't blame anyone, in truth. Admittedly, Shula was useless, but E. kept everyone at bay, Kenton leapt in with the unpalatable truth, & David, the unimaginative one, hit the truth, & Jolene was there at the right moment when Elizabeth could face her problem, at least name it. I reckon it's been quite realistically handled. They are all people with their own lives & issues, none of them particularly sensitive to mental illness even when it's staring them in the face.
ReplyDeleteRoy was so generous tonight towards Lexi, & wise when he spoke to Kirsty. What's happened to him ?! I hope that Kirsty will now speak honestly to Philip. Have a feeling their relationship may fare better than that between dazzled Tom & manipulative Natasha ( but kind of hope to be proved wrong on that last point)
Well, all I can say Caroline, in the supposedly close family the Archers are meant to be, they have been very remiss in picking up the ball with Elizabeth! I agree everyone has their own smaller lives and issues, but if nothing else you would expect them to notice LL was suffering!! I like to think, most of us would hope our own families, at least would know where to go for advice in such a situation. If you don't know what to do ask someone who does!
DeleteI do agree they might have noticed that LL was failing ! Actually, Kenton did try to help there but she pushed him away. They ( the family) don't have smaller lives, surely, they are busy preoccupied folk but are coping, whereas Elizabeth isn't because of the crises which have hit her. Add to that, mental illness is alienating. It is not all stuttering & sobbing - witness Elizabeth. It has made her hostile, withdrawn, untruthful. Jill & the others don't seem to have had much contact with that kind of behaviour except tantrums in toddlers & teenagers, so when she (E.) says she's 'fine' they accept that at face value, if a little uneasily. They are not, on the whole, very reflective or perceptive people !
DeleteVery well put C.
DeleteDo you think that Kirsty perhaps wants a baby and she is not sure that Phillip would feel the same way having at least one grown up son.?
ReplyDeletei hope she doesn't go and live with him
That is what she said to Roy, who sensibly advised her to talk to Philip. He may feel very differently to the way she fears he will.
DeleteThere is a time and a place for counselling. When you are injured physically in an accident the medics don't ask you how you feel about your accident they attend to your physical (presenting) wounds first. Likewise if you're suffering from depression (an illness like any other) you need to be triaged to see whether medical input/assesment should be the first port of call before sending you for the 'talking therapies'..........well good luck with that (the latter) you will be waiting for months. Long, long waiting lists. You'll just have to hope you've got deep pockets!
ReplyDeleteAgree BB. There was about a six month waiting list when I was ill. I thank the Lord that my GP spent some of his Practice's budget and I was in with a psychiatrist at our nearest BUPA hospital at 9pm the same evening I finally collapsed.
DeleteYes, there is a place for emergency treatment, medication of some kind, before in depth therapy. Very much needed with the long waiting lists, as you say.
DeleteI'm glad that Elizabeth has recognised and stated her troubles, but how realistic is it that she said 'I think I have depression' rather than 'I think I'm depressed'.
ReplyDeleteWell done Jolene for being there and being understanding at the right time. I feel sorry for Bert though.
Agree, Zoetrope, with your comment about Elizabeth saying, in an extreme emotional state, 'I think I have depression', in the same way someone might say 'I think I may have broken my wrist', or even 'I think I've had a stroke'. Not likely. Well, not like my own experience anyway. But it's the first step towards getting help, so it's a Good Thing.
DeleteI do think that what others have seen as being drawn out, has in my opinion been realistically handled.
ReplyDeleteWhen I had a breakdown at age 21, I managed to keep everybody at bay for months including when I had septicaemia and was treated by a doctor who was a psychologist. And I was living at home with both parents having had experience of MH issues and a sister who knew what had been going on in my life to precipitate the breakdown.
At the same time I was also going to work each day with colleagues, also aware of the events leading to my situation.
I can easily believe that, Mrs P. Sufferers can become expert concealers ! Rarely does anyone want to admit they aren't coping. It's good that there are moves these days to remove the shame, treat the unseen diseases with the same consideration as the physical. Well overdue, because of social norms, upbringing, stigma, but at least awareness is dawning (slowly, slowly in Ambridge...)
DeleteI agree that it is possible to cover up to those around you what is going on inside you, and I agree that the lengthy time frame is realistic.
DeleteWe have heard Elizabeth’s interaction with a lot of different people which adds up to a lot of concern, from where we are seeing her, whereas most people in her life have only seen her occasionally.
The point I was making about the doctor was that she may well have been concerned and asked Elizabeth to return, but perhaps Elizabeth hasn’t told Shula or anyone and perhaps she ignored the doctor’s advice. Elizabeth has been anxious about going out since before Christmas.
I agree people conceal, cover-up, throw others off the scent, but that's the point. Her close family DID know something was wrong. Their instincts were correct. However, they did not know what to do with this uncomfortable information hoping perhaps it would go away or get better. Understandable if you're not very perceptive in matters of the human condition, but no use to Elizabeth if you don't try and find something or someone who could supply you with some helpful information on how to save a disintegrating woman and stately ancestral pile!!
DeleteYes BB you are right, the fault here is that none of those, concerned as they may have been, thought to ask about, let alone contact for advice, the MH services. And they are there, however overworked they may be, they do exist within every health authority.
DeleteSo, ultimately the SW team neglected to take this issue out of its box to explore it on Elizabeth's behalf.
Perhaps it was considered too big an issue to do responsibly.
I agree with Spicycushion and others that E needs professional psychiatric help which may include anti-depressants and talk therapy. Surely her family could help her out if money is a problem with getting the help she needs. I don't remember any of the Archer family having had depression in the past and maybe that's a large part of the problem. Maybe it takes a sufferer to recognize a fellow sufferer, or someone with empathy which they seem to lack, and you can't do that if you're basically a Pollyanna type personality.
ReplyDeleteWell I can’t make Lexi out if she really loves Roy what’s her problem and how hurtful to go to see him with a bl...y book and hurt him all over again even though he is a bit of a weak character.
ReplyDeleteSo glad Lizzie has finally admitted her depression to herself and that it was lovely and sensible Jolene who was there for her 👏
Did Lexi really say something like 'I'll never stop loving you, Roy'? What does she mean by love? A nice warm feeling that doesn't entail any actions? I can't take her seriously. And yet she started so well.
DeleteExactly
DeleteMike Tucker and Pat Archer have suffered from depression in the past, and Helen Archer from anorexia. Greg killed himself. Anyone else? But Elizabeth shouldn't worry too much: in Ambridge and its environs, mental illness is a reaction to life events and soon clears up!
ReplyDeleteGeorge Barford? A vicar. It may have been the vicar-vet. It was before he arrived in Ambridge.
DeleteSo agree Bootgums, as with all things in Ambridge 'It'll all be over by Christmas!'
Delete(I know, I know, folks, but coercive control was an exception!!)
I think the scriptwriters may be up against the fact that some listeners like a quick-ish resolution to storylines. It was a brave decidion to play out the Rob and Helen story in real time and attracted a lot of listener protest. I have come across some suggestions that the current Lower Loxley story is becoming too protracted. Over by Christmas may apply to Jill’s romance, which, if Mr B doesn’t stop being such a stuffed shirt, won’t grieve me.
DeleteI didn’t think Leonard was a stuffed shirt. I thought he played it just right. Meeting all Jill’s family at once must have been daunting for him and even more so if he knows nothing about farming. Don’t think a stuffed shirt would go waltzing Jill round an old folks day room.
DeleteYou wait....he’ll mellow.
Yes, he came over as natural & agreeable, neither taciturn nor smarmy like FB senior. It was David who was awkward in behaviour, odd, as he's not a country bumpkin actually; I put it down to shock at seeing Jill in an entirely unfamiliar role. It was different for Ruth, she was relaxed ( except about David's attire!) & charming as Jill isn't her mum.
DeleteI think he’s more of a foxtrot man myself!
DeleteI don’t know how you can say Leonard should stop being a stuffed shirt, we have only actually heard him speak in one episode!
DeleteOf course he would be on his best behaviour when meeting Jill’s family for the first time and be a bit restrained until he gets to know them better.
I’m sure he’ll lighten up a bit as we come to know him. I can’t imagine Jill being really keen on a ‘boring old f..t’ so he must have his moments and hopefully we’ll get to hear them enjoying themselves in the future.
One episode is all it takes! The real question is, will Mr B be a useful addition to Brookfield’s Rosie Care Team?
Delete😄😁😆! Yes, wonder if he’s ever changed a nappy?
Delete😂😂😂 to your Rosie remark!
DeleteI thought Leonard behaved well in view of the overwhelming Archer clan and it was more that David didn’t have a word to say. As said before he could have made more enquiries about Singapore. It is unfair too to compare Leonard with Phil as Jill will hardly be looking for a clone of her late husband. She will go on loving Phil but find new pastures with Leonard. It is early days for them too and might not blossom into more than companionship but who knows?! Delightful speculation for us all!
ReplyDeleteMaybe we need a third blog purely for speculing about Mr B and Jill’s romance? There are photos of the couple on the BBC Archers Blog, btw.
ReplyDeleteI saw that , it also says comments, but if you try , it says now closed for comments, does make my blood boil.
Deletemaryellen - just for fun - I created a L & J post. I will make a comment there.
ReplyDeleteThanks so much, Ruthy! You are a dab hand at this - can’t wait to see what picture you’ve chosen!
DeleteToby spends a few pounds and expects to get back into Pip's good graces and her bed. Everything about this is ridiculous. Including Rex budding in.
ReplyDeleteYes! Rex, as I wrote earlier, urgently needs to get a life. As for the other 2, maybe they are well suited in a perverse sort of way. I mean, who else could stand them ?
DeleteI was also amused to hear Elizabeth say "I think I've got depression" like one might comment on having a physical problem. Most individuals have a knowledge of feeling "depressed" and use the word when what they mean is they are feeling low in mood. I am depressed, would have been more reflective of how someone might express themselves. Mental Illness covers a wide range of behaviours and has a range of legal definitions, this is different to medical terminology and depression is a medical term and its diagnosis is usually undertaken by a professional practitioner.
ReplyDeleteElizabeth is depressed, and for some like her this is (IMO) a reaction to stressful events, firstly the loss,of Nigel and then the issues with her children. Depression is an affective disorder, a synonym for mood and changes in mood. She has demonstrated many of the symptoms of mood swings and behavioural changes including, unhappiness, tears, anger, irritability, poor concentration, diurnal variation, personal failure, self blame, hopelessness, pessimistic thoughts etc. She has presented with all the signs of moderate to severe depression.
That makes perfect sense to me.
DeleteAnd of course, moderate to severe can be a very wide spectrum.
DeleteI did not find Elizabeth's expression odd, though I did notice it.
I do feel that Alison Downing has handled the last few months as Elizabeth extremely well.
My understanding of what I heard in that voice at that moment was that it was dawning on a bewildered and exasperated woman that PERHAPS it was depression that explained her behaviour.
Stasia - I say I am depressed at least twice a week, usually after visiting the BBC News home page. Saying I think I’ve got depression would mean something quite different and significantly more serious.
DeleteI agree,Mrs P that the actress has made Elizabeth sound very convincing .
DeleteStasia ,it is obvious that you know much more than I do about this sort of thing .
Would you agree with me that the doctor should have spotted her depression and insisted that she should return to see him.?
That is the main point that I think the scriptwriter's have got wrong.
There is so much litigation nowadays and every day on the news one hears that a hospital or GP has failed to spot something wrong with a patient.
Sorry Lanjan but the doctor has no authority to "insist" that L should come back to see him/her.
DeleteLan Jan, I still believe Elizabeth may have been advised by the doctor to return to see her but has ignored the doctor’s advice. At the time she went to see her she was barely going out and was telling Shula she was just tired. She was still in denial. As I remember when Shula asked what had happened at the consultation Elizabeth fobbed her off, gave no details, just said, oh the usual stuff. I agree with you that a doctor is likely to want a patient to return in a couple of weeks and I think the script writers were implying that Shula wasn’t getting the full story of the consultation. Of course most of us here feel that unlike Shula we would have asked Elizabeth if and when she needed to return, and would have offered to go with her.
DeleteYes of course Pierre "insist "is too strong a word to use.
DeleteWhen I think of all the litigation cases there are ,if Elizabeth had tried to do something stupid and her family had found out that the doctor had just given her sleeping pills ,would they not have felt aggrieved?
I think it is the sleeping pills that annoy me.
If one is not sleeping then there is a reason for that.
Also surely Shula should have made sure that Elizabeth returned to see the doctor.She should have consulted her brothers and perhaps they should have told her that if she must return to see him.
I am not at all happy with this storyline.
It is too long drawn out.
Con't. The principle treatment for Elizabeth would be a course of antidepressants, with psychological intervention. The family should be enabled to discuss how they might support her in regaining her confidence, and she needs to learn how to develop positive coping mechanisms when faced with stressful events. She should be referred to a psychiatric practitioner with the skills to help her unpick how she deals with life events. The last thing she needs is the smothering of the Archer clan who like any family will initially want to take over, this will only have the effect of entrenching her problems.
ReplyDeleteJolene and Kenton can offer practical support regarding the alcohol license, and certainly Lily should be told about the severity of her mother's depression. I believe she maybe pivotal in getting the business back on track, however she will need support and it shouldn't be useless Russ. Returning under these circumstances may also provide Lily with a route out of the relationship. Freddie is a non starter.
I am in the very obvious minority. I believe Freddie on his return, will be very remorseful and both he + Lily, as twins will unite to help their Mum, and put LL back on track.
ReplyDeleteLL needs a new Manager - re-enter Roy, which will then allow Kirsty to take over Roy's position at GG.
I like it Miriam 😀
DeleteSounds like a plan. 👍
DeleteCarolyn - I like your follow up to my Toby and Rex - yes who else could put up with Toby and Pip but each other.
ReplyDeleteAs Lanjan always says 'They would spoil another couple'.........or words to that effect!
DeleteMaybe we could have a fourth blog devoted to T❤️O❤️B❤️Y, Pip and Rosie?
ReplyDeleteWhat a horrendous idea! 😟
DeleteBabies are not interesting on the radio. P. & T. are not interesting anywhere = little mileage in a 4th blog.
DeleteIt was a JOKE!!!
DeleteI think it a great idea, Maryellen then you would be able to discuss Toby to your hearts content with any other fan, without bothering the rest of us !!!
DeleteOn the contrary, Cow Girl, my idea was for a blog where people could slag Tobes and Pip.off their heart’s content without bothering me! It would be therapeutic for the contributors.
DeleteOh, but you enjoy it, Maryellen - a chance to practise all those hearts !
DeleteLooking at the pictures on the website, I think Rex is better looking than Toby! How shallow am I! So it’s R♥️e💕x for me!
DeleteEv - but not for the young women of Borsetshire it seems (Anissa being the exception that proves the rule!).
DeleteYes, Carolyn, there will be double hearts for the Valentine Day’s Ode I’m writing for him. Look out your sick bucket now! (This is a joke.)
DeleteI'll have a laugh instead.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteRex is too wet for you Ev.
DeleteHe'd drive you round the bend inside half an hour.
Yes he would and bet unlike my dear husband he wouldn’t be able to put a shelf up! However, I can window shop!
DeleteIf Elizabeth decides to seek help from her doctor and is initially put on anti- depressants I hope she will be warned that they do not work immediately and can even make her feel worse for the first couple of weeks. From personal experience I can advise that this is the time she will need a lot of support and not be left on her own at Lower Loxley.
ReplyDeleteOnce the drug kicks in and she starts to feel better and more in control, the future of LL can be assessed but for those first few weeks she should not be trying to run such a large enterprise on her own. This is when Lily would be most useful, or other family and friends (eg Oliver) could take on some of the day to day tasks and decisions.
She didn’t ever run Lower Loxley on her own, as far as I recall. She needs to advertise for a competent manager to replace Geraldine (Glen being temporary so not putting a lot into it), and an undermanager to cover when the manager is absent. Then she can step back for a while without having to rely on a hotchpotch of non-professionals in the form of family members or trade on the goodwill of the likes of Oliver.
DeleteI know ' if onlys' are useless, but 'if only' she hasn't alienated Geraldine, things would be much better at LL now ! But then we wouldn't have a dramatic SL of course, taking the angst up to the wire...Quite realistic, in fact, most people not cottoning on to their mental state until it's screaming at them.
ReplyDeleteAP, pretty sure these days she would be told that anti deps. take weeks to be effective, if it were decided to take that route with her, as a first step.
Enter Lily, which has another advantage as again she has the chance to realize that Russ is a liability in her life. She could be having a breakdown herself : a) trying to keep up & catch up with the degree course b)manage a part time job c) putting up with R.'s phoney artistic agony d) no solace in normal student interraction.
Unfortunately the diffulity with assessing mood disorders is that we have to rely on subjective terminology. Words the patients uses to describe their feelings, and how they then project these through behaviour will enable the practitioner to understand the treatment approach. However, she cannot at this stage be forced to participate in any treatment as she doesn't fit the criteria for treatment under the Mental Health Act.
ReplyDeleteElizabeth is irritable, rude, alienated and anxious. On the spectrum of symptoms she is not on the extreme end of being severely depressed as she is able to recognise she maybe needs help, but her presentation and character may hinder her from benefiting from any intervention. Not being in control could be difficult for any intervention from family and professionals. Trust is important and we know she is confident in Lily's abilities but would she let others, especially Roy take some responsibility for day today management of LL?
I don't think the GP will have the time or experience to work long term with her and let's hope the surgery has quick access to the local psychiatric services.
AP. Is correct, antidepressants take time to work and they don't all work in the same way, and some have side effects, and when she gets better a slow decrease is important. Monitoring of medication and mood is central to management of symptoms.
Of course it is all hypothetical and we have to wait and see.
I just hope the SWs have sought sound medical advice on how to go with this story. If Elizabeth is referred for counselling and gets it straight away, it will not be realistic.
DeleteAs in the case of other major stories (eg Nic’s sepsis) it is very important they cover this accurately and responsibly. There are bound to be listeners either suffering depression themselves, or have a relative in a similar state who will be listening very carefully to how Elizabeth is helped and treated, and hopefully recovers.
They’d better get it right.
✔️✔️
Deleteindeed, so important . 🤞
DeleteNo two individuals react in the same way. Some can be extremely depressed and are able to cover up their emotions. I would worry more about them than Elizabeth, who is at least expressing herself, although inappropriately with anger and unpleasant comments. She did indicate to Jolene her vulnerability and that is a positive step. Counselling is a very broad term and in her present condition such an approach may not be helpful until the medication has kicked in and she can talk. She is most likely to be offered a cognitive behavioural approach which should help with her reactions to anxiety and stressful situations. Most community psychiatric nurses are trained in this approach.
DeleteThanks for giving of your knowledge & experience, Stasia, which makes perfect sense to me. As you say, in an earlier post, much of this has to be subjective, people are diverse, not least in their reactions to drugs. E. won't be easy to treat, I suspect, because of her established character, quite apart from the mental & emotional disfunction she has now. For instance, someone else would not lash out but internalize more, blaming themselves for everything - equally inappropriate in a different way. But I'm just speculating !
DeleteCBT works for absolutely everything, apparently. Probably including warts.
DeleteDon't mean to sound cynical, but I am a bit. Good for some things, I'm sure, but prescribed for practically everything.
On a lighter note, just caught Jack May's (Nelson Gabriel) dulcet tones in 'The man who would be King' - now in full warm-up mode for 'Le Crunch' ! 🏉
ReplyDeleteThe first thing Lizzie has to do is visit her GP surgery and be totally honest. She at last recognises she has a problem which hopefully she can now talk about. The first step will to be prescribed an anti-depressant, which will take at least 2 weeks to show any effect, which she will be warned about - so someone needs to organise help for her.
ReplyDeleteI just hope Lizzie doesn't go to the surgery alone.
I feel that this is a type of PTSD due to Nigel's death, which came to the fore with Freddie's problems.
She, IMHO, needs a form of bereavement counselling.
PS In fairness to the "locum" Lizzie saw, for a standard 11 min appointment, (a last minute cancellation), he/she would not have known what had occured as no real time to look at previous records. That is part of the NHS problem these days. I always go with a "list" so to get the most of my quick appointment.
DeleteYour comments make sense to me as well, Miriam, though I don't agree about trauma caused by Nigel's death, because she did not repress shock or grieve at the time. She expressed her feelings. Of course, that will always be a loss, & sadness will surface, as it does with Jill, but not affect her ability to cope with life.
DeleteI just feel Lizzie is "angry" that Nigel died so tragically + early, leaving her to cope alone. This came to the fore with Freddies misdemeanor. Would it have happened if Nigel had besn still around which I feel is part of the problem which Lizzie can't accept.
DeleteThat's my last post on this subject.
It's possible that Elizabeth wasn't able to express all of her feelings at the time of Nigel's death. She had to get herself together to help the children with their grief, and cope with the work at Lower Locksley that Nigel would have done . Sometimes adrenalin keeps you going, perhaps because others are dependent on you, and then a comparatively minor upset comes along and triggers the release of unexpressed, or only partially expressed, emotion from the past.
DeleteAfter the omnibus earlier I have but one comment.
ReplyDeletePip wants her cake + eat it!
She thinks that she is indispensable, expecting childcare to suit her, and if it goes wrong then she is not prepared to find alternative for her daughter, which Toby did.
Surely she is responsible for keeping Rickyard clean + tidy, as it is her "rent free" home, where Toby only goes to help out. He doesn't live there.
Pip needs to sort Rosie's childcare out, once and for all.
So far Rosie has come to no harm, but will this always be the situation.
I cannot stand her self righteous indignation every time she is confronted with the reality that her life HAS changed because she chose to have a child! All those little tantrums betray the fact that she is still acting like a self centered teenager.
ReplyDeleteAnd don't even get me started on that annoying intonation.... Grrr!
With you 100% G.G.
Delete✔️✔️✔️✔️, me too!
Delete✔️✔️✔️Me too Gary.
DeleteGrrr indeed.
Agree too Gary.
DeleteStasia ,you Know a lot more about depression than I do and Iwill tell you what surprises me about all this.
ReplyDeleteYou say that no two individuals react in the same way.
I have been fortunate in that so far I have only known one person with depression and the one thing she wasn't ,was rude.
She was very quiet and it was very difficult to get through to her .
I hadn't a clue how to handle things and I am sure I made a hash of trying.
I have found Elizabeth's behaviour annoying because she has been so rude to most people she has met .
I assume because of her illness she is not able to control her rudeness
Jill is unaware of Elizabeth's depression and was introducing her new boyfriend .
I felt really sorry for her -Jill that is.
I presume that Elizabeth forgot she was coming over although in the normal way one shouldn't have to make an appointment to pop over to see one's daughter.
It would have been better all round if when Jill took Leonard to Brookfield ,David had said that when Elizabeth had got over her cold she also would love to meet Leonard but probably it would be better not to go there until then in case they caught it.
I really want to feel more sorry for Elizabeth than I do.
Lan Jan, I don't feel that Elizabeth is being rude, as you see it.
DeleteI would say that she is being defensive.
It's very different, but often does sound rude.
She is being defensive because of guilt and trying to hide what is going on from her mother.
Parents will do all they can to protect their children.
Children, whatever their age, often do everything they can to protect their parents.
When I spent months keeping everyone at bay, when I knew how ill I was, the two most important people to keep that truth from were my mum and dad.
I truly believed that the knowledge would kill them.
How little we know !
I did not know at that time, that both parents, in very different ways, had experienced MH problems.
In the event they both took it in their stride, and my mother in particular did all she could throughout my life to stand by me and support me when I needed it, despite often not understanding my behaviour.
Elizabeth is trying to protect, and keep at bay, those she most needs, including of course Lily.
Well said Mrs P. Elizabeth knee she couldn’t control her reactions to Bert and was terribly upset about it as she indicated to Jolene afterwards. Agree that it can be really difficult to let parents know of difficulties.
Deleteknew, not knee.
DeleteWell I am sorry but Elizabeth sounded rude to me .
DeleteYes she was being defensive but was still ,in my opinion extremely rude to Bert
Had she spoken to me like that ,rightly or wrongly not knowing the situation I would have left her and got in touch with one of her brothers to tell them about her behaviour.
However,I know nothing about mental health and appreciate that she may be unable to help the way she is behaving .
I just hope she gets the help she needs soon.
Eh up.....another stroppy teenager in Ambridge. At least with Mia she has an accent so you can tell who she is.
ReplyDeleteMy prediction for her storyline is either bullying online or being groomed online. Deduced by the shut in her bedroom with phone, forcibly saying she wasn’t playing games in it and Emma saying she wasn’t looking....as if Mia suddenly hid what was on it.
Must be due another topical issue raising its ugly head.
Oh, I do hope not. I must say I didn’t think Mia was being particularly stroppy.
DeleteI think she is trying to fill Nic’s shoes and run the house as well as she can.
She was upset she hadn’t noticed they had run out of pickle for Will’s sandwich and is trying to be a little mother to the family.
Emma did go on and on about the visit to the theme park, even when Mia made it clear she didn’t want to go - maybe she felt it was a treat for children and she doesn’t consider herself a child anymore. I think she wants to be thought of as more grown up than the others and treated as such.
Oh, and by the way, what sort of car do Ed and Emma have? Surely they can’t have one of those very expensive, huge, multi-seated MPV’s? So how did Emma think they were going to transport all those children to the park? In Joe’s trap, pulled by Bartley perhaps?
I agree with Archerphile, I didn't think Mia stroppy.
DeleteI thought instead anxious and concerned at filling Nicks shoes, and possibly not doing well enough.
And probably feeling she ought not to go the theme park because she's too busy keeping house, or because she's worried about the cost.
DeleteI expect Ed has a van and he'll just throw everybody in the back with heaven knows what.
Superficial comment on looks - I agree with Ev about Rex.
ReplyDeletePtbY I liked the Mia accent and it seems obvious there's a problem there. Either grooming or bullying online which would be very topical. Poor girl.
My first thought about Mia was that it would be a 'young carer' (of Poppy) storyline, with Mia being given, or taking on, too much responsibility . I missed the significance of the bit with her phone.
ReplyDeleteMia has been the good little girl in the background so far, so now we are finding out about her needs. How old is she ? About 12 ? Timing is just right, her grieving hasn't really been taken into account, not indifference or unkindness but because she has appeared to be coping. I bet the online bullying is on the money. A promising SL.
ReplyDeleteDon't see that Jill abandoning the Brookfield catering is a problem at all as they didn't starve before she took over ! Now they're in a better position as everyone except for the baby is adult enough to share the domestic load. Why, even Pip could set to, Rosie on hip, in the Brookfield kitchen....presumably she looks after herself at Rickyard, even if she's 'too tired' to wash up & clean these days...
ReplyDeleteWouldn't it be lovely if Mia just got on with the business of being a slightly dull & awkward moody teenager for the next 7 years or so? No dramas, no grooming, no bullying, no self harm, no drugs, no pregnancies, no existential angst. Just every now and again having her say that everything was a bit rubbish or embarrassing.
ReplyDeleteWouldn't it be great? But I don't think it's gonna happen...
Yes GG I don't think I can stand another 'ishoo' storyline yet. My immediate idea was 'moody teenager' now she's just had her thirteenth birthday but thought that might be a bit like Harry Enfield's Kevin. (Who stays up till midnight being a normal polite eager 12 years old boy and at midnight became a moody aggresive teenager for those who may not know.)
DeleteI suspect it might be online bullying which, although it has dominated the headlines over the last week, was around long enough ago to be in the running for planning meetings three months back.
Some years back when D&R were at Brookfield alone with the children they both admitted they were hopeless at the domestic side of the marriage especially on the cooking front. I remember Ruth complaining that when it was David's turn to do dinner they usually had something really easy from out the freezer section of the supermarket when she had made an effort. Later there came complaints from the children about Ruth's cooking as well.
Archerphile I suspect that Ed and Emma do have a large people carrier type car. It seems to be compulsory nowadays once one has a baby! My thought was - why is Emma thinking of spending in excess of £100 on a day out? I am sure that although that may be cheap compared to other attractions I am sure there are many cheaper ways to treat' the children!
I don’t think we have ever heard about what car E & E have. Presumably Ed has some sort of old van or pick-up to get him to the various jobs he has.
DeleteI assumed Emma might have an elderly small hatchback (like my beloved 19 year old Micra) to get herself to the chicken factory and her other jobs, unless she cycles, perhaps.
I just don’t think they could afford a big people carrier, even a second hand one, nor the insurance, running costs and petrol.
After all, they have been saving every penny for the house deposit.
Perhaps they just use shank’s pony!
Agree wholeheartedly, GG. I don't hold out much hope, though.
DeleteLikewise, GG, the odd odd grunt from Jake & George, loud sighs from Mia, the comments you suggest, & slamming of doors from all 3, would suffice until they become interesting again, but no, Mia's being set up for trouble....( We haven't actually heard her speak before, have we ?)
DeleteSadly Spiceycushion , people today think you have to spend money for the children to have a good day out. it is all about competition and keeping up with the Joneses. What children actually want is your time and with their friends, even though they are a country family there is still plenty to do that they wouldn't normally do you and can always follow it up with a good baking session , you get to eat the results too and lick the bowl, some pleasures never change.
ReplyDelete✔️✔️ 🥰
DeleteI was once told that a child would prefer to have an hour of your time than a pound of your money so I asked my younger son wwhen he was a lad what he thought (when a pound was worth a pound )
DeleteHe immediately said a pound of my money.
I reported back to the person who told me that and he said that was because he was already getting my attention so extra money would just be a bonus
I might ask him again if he remembers my saying that and if so why he preferred a pound note to me!
Don't push your luck, Lanjan !
DeleteOh Gary I do so agree with you and Zoëtrope I wouldn't mind -in fact I would welcome (if we have to have issues) something about Young Carers.
ReplyDeleteEver since seeing a programme on TV about two young girls with several younger boy siblings with parents who were blind who admitted having lots of children so that they themselves could be looked after by them, Barnardos Young Carers has been the main Charity I support.
These poor children had a bit of a Break about once a month when they were taken out.
It was heart breaking to see how hard it was for them to cope.
So actually,yes please Scriptwriters let us have a storyline where Mia feels that she has to be the carer
Children should be allowed to have a childhood.
Yes, indeed, it's a short enough time, though when you're living through it, it seems endless.
DeleteHave just listened to last night's programme again
ReplyDeleteTalking about rudeness,I thought that Kenton was rude leaving Jill and Leonard by themselves.
Also Jill said that Elizabeth hadn't had things handed to her on a plate.
I thought that she had.
As for Mia...
She asked if Will was going too to the Theme Park and only said she didn't want to go when he said "no"
So I think it may well be that she sees herself as Nic's replacement as a Carer for Will and Poppy.
I was thinking that if Will didn’t go she wouldn’t go cos she doesn’t like Emma.
DeleteI think Mia just got a bit fed up with Emma continually pressing her to go to the theme park with them. Earlier with Will she seemed perfectly happy.
ReplyDelete