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Death in Ambridge
Death in Ambridge
Life outside Ambridge
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Life in Ambridge
THIS POST IS CLOSED "longer off topic comments" - Episode 14 Life Outside Ambridge Have a seat and let's chat.
I stopped listening about a couple of weeks ago..not on purpose there just seemed something better to do....will probably catch up one of these days but I don't see the rush🍁🍁🍁
ReplyDeleteOooooh I'm first on the blog
DeleteWell goodbye Joe.....off to meet up with your Susan.
ReplyDeleteI think, if they get it right, there could be a promising story line for Ruairi. Not holding my breath though! 😐
Well done Adrian Flynn for tonight's episode. Very subtle and fitting.
ReplyDeleteI agree, beautifully done tonight. A gentle, sensitive end for Joe and Ruari-Elizabeth conversation convincingly written. Wasn’t sure about the car incident with the boys but the Ruari back story sounded accurate as I remember it.
ReplyDeleteRuairi (knew it didn’t look right)
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ReplyDeleteWhat a lovely episode that was.....
ReplyDeleteI mean that in the best possible way. It was with Lizzie and Ruiari sharing memories, Lillian at the Cider Club, Will + Eddie spending time and talking together, and so on.
It was sad, yet a simple + dignified way, to hear about Joe.
Well done to All involved.
It must have been hard to do so eloquently and in such a dignified way.
Found Ruairi/Elizabeth sensitive & believable. I miss Joe, the old villain. 😔
ReplyDeleteI hope that Edward Kelsey's family were somehow involved and had an input, into the writing of Joe's sad parting.
ReplyDeleteIt was well done, in a very gentle and sensitive way.
I hoped they approved and appreciated this.
It was so well structured & linked, without seeming forced or contrived. Two deaths, two sets of memories, emotional without sentimrntality
ReplyDelete✔✔✔
Delete.... without sentimentality. First time Elizabeth has come across as likeable in a long while, & Ruairi's yearning to know more was palpable. He's growing up, too, understanding a little of how exceptionally generous she was to take him on, & how loving she has been to him through the years.
DeleteAs for the Grundy brothers - arguing, laughing, remembering - so natural.
I really liked the scene between Rauiri and Elizabeth, I had forgotten how close Elizabeth was to Siobhan.
ReplyDeleteJoe’s end was clearly signposted this week but sympathetically executed.
A sad but not depressing episode.
Exactly, KPnuts, sad, yet hopeful as well. Joe's gentle passing, an ending, a beginning of healing, I think, for the Grumdy family
DeleteI have entered a comment that has disappeared. Apologies if it subsequently appears twice!
ReplyDeleteBeautifully done. I saw the title of this blog before listening to the episode, so knew it was coming tonight. Lovely that the press was fixed and the members of the cider club present before Joe 'slipped back to the house'.
Listening to Rhuari and Elizabeth I momentarily forgot that Jennifer was not Rhuari's mother. It will be so good for Rhuari to hear Elizabeth's memories of Siobhan and learn more about her.
I too wrote a line that disappeared Zoetrope 🙄 😡
DeleteJust to say RIP dear Joe a true Archers character......
Beautifully written episode tonight. Farewell Joe.
ReplyDeleteI must add my compliments on tonight’s episodes to everyone else’s.
ReplyDeleteBeautifully written and sensitively acted by all the cast.
The Archers team really can do this sort of episode well.
So it’s “Poor Old Joe” at last
Agree with all comments above, and all that can be said, has been.
ReplyDeleteI have only just listened, but saw the blog changes, and the title of this one and realised, so chose not to read, but listened first instead.
Yes, beautifully done in all aspects.
Ruari's ' story' and memories of Siobhan would be a fitting way to take at least one of the younger Ambridge residents forward into the main stream of the programme as well as giving Elizabeth a better role than her recent woes have given her.
His understanding of Jennifer's presence in his life shed a better light on his developing character.
I can only add that I agree with all the comments about tonight's episode - very well and sensitively done.
ReplyDeleteIt was good to hear Ed and Will working together and not flying off the handle when things were going wrong. Joe had the satisfaction of knowing that, for now at least, the bad blood between them had been put aside.
ReplyDeleteOne of the best things about last nights episode was not hearing any arguments, fighting, recriminations, grumbles or loud (or irritating) voices.
ReplyDeleteIt just goes to show that it is possible to create a satisfying and engrossing episode without any of those elements.
I, for one, would like to tune in to a few more such interludes in Ambridge.
A death in the family sometimes has that effect, Archerphile. It's a temporary suspension of hostilities while the warring factions are brought together in shared bereavement. It won't last - it never does!
ReplyDeleteHow shall we remember poor old Joe,
ReplyDeleteShall we stand by his grave and try not to weep
Of the years when he would complain
And moan about his lungs and farm he had lost
We shall remember his scrounging ways
And occasional acts of kindness displayed
Although they were few and far between
I shall not be a wandering textless sheep
and weep for this aged man who fell asleep
Who ran out of steam and finally succumbed
After drinking the cider his family had rung
From the press they had fixed so he could be done.
I suppose in Ambridge will write better dog gar el.
Bert Fry his best friend will salute Joe with a better piece of goggerel.
DeleteWish I had your way with words Stasia. That little poem was perfect! Sentimental, but with a little sting in the tail and it had Joe down to a tee.
DeleteI wonder if we shall hear Bert’s reaction, possibly at the funeral. He will be sad he has lost his old sparring partner and perhaps become aware that he might be the next old stager to depart this mortal coil!
Sarnia: 9.26am
ReplyDeleteYes, you are right, of course. But I was not just referring to the Grundy family’s appearance last night, but to the whole episode.
I thought Freddie’s conversation with Elizabeth about his mother, whom he barely knew, was very poignant and showed him in a different light. Elizabeth was very kind and understanding with him.
There were no irritating scenes with Pip or Kate (or the dreadful Joy!), no grumbling from Jennifer or Peggy, no arguments between the Fairbrothers, just a peaceful 15 minutes with everyone behaving normally and pleasantly for once.
Archerphile 11.37am.
ReplyDeleteI am dogged by that blasted predictive text, and even when I read back I can’t see the wrongs to put them right.
I have never understood the saying “ never speak ill of the dead”. Unfortunately some individuals leave a legacy in death that is carried on by others afterwards.
Will any of the younger Grundys follow in Joes traditional footsteps.
I will miss Joe and Bert together - their competitive dominoes and cribbage in The Bull not forgetting the Flower + Produce Show shenanigans, over many years.
ReplyDeleteBert will be just one of very many in Ambridge, who will truelly miss him.
Those moments with Bert and Joe were good entertainment Miriam, when we had them, but they haven't been in evidence for at least the last two years.
ReplyDeleteThe current crop of writers, not interested in the old timers as characters.
I can play cribbage, so I will be happy to meet Bert in The Bull for a game or two.
DeletePlus I could meet Lilian and sample some real "Scruff" gin..
Very fitting that Eddie found Joe. Whatever faults Eddie has he has always been a good son to Joe, along with Clarrie looking after him all these years and putting up with all Joe’s funny ways not to mention his ferrets!
ReplyDeleteAt least Joe had his wish - to end his days at Grange Farm.
ReplyDeleteI wonder what will happen now
Tears aplenty tonight with Eddie talking to Joe and then Ed saying they would have to ask Grandad at the end. I still momentarily have the thought that I must tell Mike that even after two years. Even though Joe was a great age he will leave a huge hole.
ReplyDeleteAh Ev !
ReplyDeleteHow lovely that you had that thought...... you see they do go on living in our hearts, don't they.
I had a big cry tonight listening to TA.
ReplyDeleteWhat a good and well written episode.
It brought back memories to me also, saying that final good-bye and giving a kiss, to a much loved one.
The s/w got it spot on.
A very moving episode- congrats to all involved. Dear Eddie I was choked and tearful during his scene with Joe, smiled at Jolene’s comment re Joe’s many pints most of which were not paid for by him 😉
ReplyDeleteEmotionally I am not with Clarrie who declared as Joe was an old man so his death to be expected so “let’s get on as he would want! “What about grieving and crying if that is what one wants / needs to do. Not doing so can cause future problems. It is terrible for a young life to be cut short of course but just because you’re loved one lived a long life it doesn’t mean that their death does not leave those left behind feeling pain at the vacuum left in their lives.
Agree with Miriam and Lady R, it was a very fitting episode and Eddy talking to his dad must have recalled memories for so many as Miriam says, and we all feel a void when a loved one dies at whatever age.
ReplyDeleteAnd we all need to grieve appropriately.
I agree with you about Clarrie, Lady R; it struck a wrong note for me emotionally too, fussing over breakfast, another rasher, we must carry on etc. She means well, the archetypal mother hen, but insensitive. Did people notice the sharp note in her voice when she questioned Will about walking near the river ? Sub text : were you going to jump in ?
ReplyDeleteAlso, in general, I hate when the old cliche gets trotted out ' He/she had a good innings'. So what ? That obvious fact doesn't help the bereaved, who miss them even more profoundly just because they've been around for so long. We all know, objectively that it is more sad if a person does before they've had much of a chance to enjoy, achieve & experience, but it's actually insulting to say that to the grieving - a covert way of telling them not to be selfish ! They are alive, let them process the grief, as you were saying, Lady R.
That said, it was a quietly moving episode, everyone true to themselves, including Clarrie. Eddie was so real, so poignant.
Carolyn, I suspect people only fall back on that because they don't know what to say. People have been saying to me, 'He's free now' or 'He's in a better place' and I couldn't argue with that, because it's true. Isn't that what truisms are for - to bale people out when when they don't know what else to say ?
DeleteTo a large extent I am with Clarrie
ReplyDeleteJoe had not been ill.
He had enjoyed his final evening.
He did not have dementia .
He died in his own bed.
He was 98 years old
Surely that is what most of us would settle for at that age ?
I would.
I may be alone and although Eddies soliloquy was moving I have had enough of the sentiment now.
Lanjan 9.12pm
ReplyDeleteAgree about the nature ofJoe’s death Lanjan a lovely way for him to go, but the loss of a close family member be it spouse, grandparent (often a first loss) or close friend leaves such emptiness and much readjustment of life to deal with, we are of course all different and deal with this in different ways and timescales. Although we are only a couple of weeks apart birthday (🍰tomorrow) wise you have the strength of the Scorpion my Libra scales need to be rebalanced post these emotional events. Even if experienced via a tv /radio drama!
I was particularly moved by Eddie’s little ‘chat’ with Joe tonight.
ReplyDeleteIt was beautifully written, as was the whole episode, and last nights too.
I was unable to say goodbye to either of my parents as I lived far away and they had not been not particularly ill beforehand. When I was telephoned to say they had died I was terribly shocked and desperately upset to think I had not been there and could not tell
them everything they meant to me. I am so glad Eddie had that opportunity and managed to express his thoughts so well. A very moving scene.
So fortunate to be with my dad and years later my mum (older sis too) as I was the daughter who lived nearby the bigger chance of this for me but even so not always the way things pan out!
DeleteMe too AP, I was there for my Dad but not my Mam, (my sister was). Last seen waving goodbye in the hospital ward, she knew but I didn't (want to).
ReplyDeleteDefinitely more than one tear in the eye tonight.
Carrie grated.
CLarrie..
ReplyDeleteI agree that Joe had a peaceful end after an enjoyable evening. What more could one wish after a long life. To be spared a long drawn out hospital or nursing home death is surely a huge blessing.
ReplyDeleteLanJan 9.12 yesterday.
ReplyDeleteI am with you, I don't think I am devoid of sentiment, but I found yesterdays episode a bit OTT.
For Gawds sake why did the S/Ws have insert the stupid Fairblatherer and his pig story. Was that meant to soften the angst of having to listen to the Grundys discuss their grieving. 95% well written, especially Eddie’s one sided chat with Joe, 5% utter rubbish.
ReplyDeleteI object to being treated as an imbecile unable to sustain a serious storyline.
Will Clarrie have to do a last cut of joe’s toenails?
No Stasia, Clarrie said he was off to the undertakers, so I think they will be doing that if it's considered necessary.
ReplyDeleteNice thought though.
Sarnia (1.38am), I'm sure you're right in saying these truisms are uttered in desperation ( & they state facts which are undeniable)
ReplyDeleteOn the receiving end there's no option but acceptance of the obvious & recognition that the intention was kind.
However, I feel it shows the speaker is far more focused on themselves & 'getting it right' than they are on the bereaved person.Nothing clever needs to be said, it's
only important to convey empathy. If you feel that towards another's sadness & pain, you can't do or say anything that jars.
Best not to overthink, just be human
Lanjan9.12pm.
ReplyDeleteI agree it’s now time to move on. We have been discussing Jo’s impending 💀 death for some months now. Maybe now is the best time to off load the sentimentality and look at the real character.
He was a Sleekit wee scrounging, tax dodging, semi criminal who scared the wits out of little children with his ghost stories. He caused hardship to his family and never paid his way for anything, including vet fees for old Bartilby.
But hey, his family loved him.
Totally agree Stasia. No I didn't like him. He was a cadger, lazy farmer who brought a lot of trouble to his family and left Eddie trying to keep the farm going alone for many years. The Grundy family was not liked in the village and Jethro certainly didn't want Clarrie to marry into it. However she was determined and when Eddie owed some money to someone (about £500 my TA book says, in 1960s-70s) Clarrie said she would pay it if he married her. He did and so she did!
DeleteHe became a 'character' after Walter Gabriel and Joby Woodford died but he was still a moaner and complainer, where nothing was his fault and 'they' were all against him and the Grundys!
However I'm glad that Trevor Harrison did the valedictory broadcast as they worked together or so many years.
Adrian Flynn wrote the script this week and has also has written next week's so I hope we soon move on without being too maudling!
Well done Adrian Flynn for the way he portrayed Eddie talking to his dead dad. I found it very moving. When my dad died in 1996 we did the traditional, but probably now old fashioned thing, of having open coffin for several days at home before the funeral so that anyone from the village and surrounding area could come to say goodbye, and people, including myself, did tend to talk to him as if still alive. Even though the person is dead I think there is a kind of release in being able to say the things you want to say to them. Goodbye Joe and thank you for providing me with much amusement over the years.
ReplyDeleteBack in August when I got the telephone call at 11.04pm to say that Mr S had died in his sleep, after phoning the family I took a taxi to the nursing home and sat with him until the undertakers came for him. I chatted to him off and on about all sorts and he didn't interrupt me once or seem to find me at all boring!
DeleteAm sending a big hug for you Sarnia.
DeleteCan't help it, have got to add this bit even if you think we are a very strange lot. My father's cousin and her husband both farmed and ran a guest house. They were getting near retirement and put the big house up for sale. Her mum, my great aunt died, and she was in open coffin in the best bedroom when some people from upcountry came to look round the house with a view to buying. When they came to the best bedroom our cousin opened the door and said to them "you are very welcome to look in here but Mum is in there and she is in her coffin"! They didn't seem to know what to say, declined and left quickly!
ReplyDeleteOh Janice, I shouldn’t smile at such a sad story, but I’m afraid I did!
DeleteIt would have made a perfect interlude in a comedy show such as Hancock, Steptoe or even a more up to date one like Not Going Out.
I don’t think your family are strange at all. It was common practice to have an open coffin in many families and certain parts of the country. Along with drawing all the curtains and having a wreath on the front door. In Jewish families, although the funeral has to take place very quickly , the family would stay indoors for a week after the death and male relatives and friends would come to the house every evening to say prayers. There are so many different rituals concerned with a death in the family.
Reminds me of when we were house-searching before buying here in 16 - in the back of beyond, pretty looking rural property, spirits rose; only to sink when finding Granny laid out on her hospital bed in the kitchen.... we didn't buy 😲😏
DeleteI am also reminded of going into a church in Poland and accidentally encountering a funeral. The dead person was a young man in an open ⚰️ coffin, and all the family and friends individually approached him and delivered a speech interspersed with weeping and wailing 😭 and kissing. We at that point couldn’t slink away so stayed Until it had finished. I also ended up weeping it was so emotional.
DeleteI wouldn’t weep for old Joe! At 98 he had a good innings, mostly thanks to the generosity of others.
Have just read a delicious nugget of information in today’s Sunday Times Culture Section.
ReplyDeleteIn a book review of Lady Anne Glenconner’s biography (she was Lady in Waiting to Princess Margaret) she tells how she visited Margaret during her final illness.
As she got there the Queen emerged from Margaret’s room and Lady Anne asked if everything was all right.
“No, it’s not” said the Queen. “Margaret is listening to The Archers and every time I try to say something, she goes Shh”
Nice to know the Archers was appreciated even in the highest circles.
Just love it Archerphile thank you for posting, and of course Princess Margaret had her moment of fame in the programme which I’m sure most us recall...
ReplyDeletePrincess Margaret was a bit special to me as we shared the same birthday, 21st August. But I think she was a much more typical Leo than I am!
DeleteObviously others feel as I do that tonight's episode was a bit of a nothing episode!
ReplyDeleteI did like the fact though that Ruairi is finding out about his mother and that Elizabeth is being understanding with him.
He is just about the age when he is starting to question 'Who am I?' and is being very tactful in not asking about Siobhan when Jennifer is around.
A very difficult situation for him. I feel for him.
Almost 11pm and not a single post about tonight’s episode!
ReplyDeleteI though it was another lovely calm and peaceful visit to Ambridge. Beautifully written and acted.
Especially Elizabeth helping Ruairi get to know his late mother and the reconciliation between Susan and Clarrie. I know this was forecast, so was not surprising but it was handled very sensitively.
I rather hope we don’t have to hear Alf upsetting the family again and that Oliver will allow them a couple of weeks grace before moving to The Green.
I agree with your comments about tonight's episode Archerphile. So pleased that Clarrie and Susan have united in friendship again. Surely Oliver will be kind to the Grundys over this.
DeleteNot a nothing episode to me either. I also thought it was beautiful but I did have to listen twice as I fell asleep listening to it last night, woke up to Eddie saying “execution”. Just listened again. Stage is set for Ed and Emma’s reconciliation. But where will they live?
ReplyDeleteI think Joe gave his funeral money to Ed .
ReplyDeleteClarrie and Eddie surely must have realised that at 98 years of age Joe was not likely to live for more than a few years longer so why is it now that Clarrie is wondering how they will pay for the funeral?
Oliver 🤔
DeleteI was never totally convinced Alf stole the Lent-appeal money, I remember George splashing some cash at the time. Maybe this story is going to be re-visited if Alf comes back to say goodbye to his Dad.
ReplyDeleteI imagine Oliver will give the Grundys a couple of weeks to sort themselves out. Point being raised about the cost of funerals.
Yes, KP, I wonder if this is going to be an Archers mini-issue about the increasing cost of funerals, which has been mentioned quite a bit in the news recently?
DeleteAt least they won’t need to pay for a hearse and cars, because surely Bartleby and his trap will be used and the mourners can probably walk to church.
Would Alan waive his fees, I wonder? I am sure the villagers will rally round to provide the wake, too. It will be a proper village event I am sure.
Why all this sudden rush to go whinging to Oliver for a stay of ‘execution’? We knew they were all supposed to move into Will’s house, but when was that intended to take place?
ReplyDeleteEven with Joe’s demise how can they all fit into a three bedroom house?
Well I suppose Eddie has inherited his fathers ways, and Oliver who is such an open tap, generous to a fault, will pay for the funeral, the wake and all the Grundys will live happily ever after. That includes Emma and kids. Eddie dropped the hint of reconciliation.
I always thought that the curtain money would be found in a tea caddy at the back of a shelf in a cupboard in the vestry.
ReplyDeleteI hope Alf doesn’t come to the funeral.
I also hope the Grundy 5week session will soon be over.
I have had enough of Clarrie’s Whiney voice.
Erm, what's happened to all the thousands of pounds that Ed and Emma (and others...!) had raised for their deposit? Why can't the Grundy's pay for themselves for once?
ReplyDeleteOoh yes fair point GG 🤔
DeleteAs expected Susan & Clarrie are friends once more due to Joe’s passing, how often does it happen this way! Thankfully it was not one of them that died and therefore the one left behind full of guilt and regret. Now we listen for Emma’s reaction!
ReplyDeleteRauri I would like to think that J & B would understand that as a grown man your need now to know more of your mothers life and friends is a normal reaction, but touched that you are putting their feelings first, most especially Jennifer’s. (I wonder if Elizabeth will mention R reaction to Brian on the qt.)
How much longer can Oliver delay the Grundys departure from Grange Farm, maybe forever as he may say stay and I will move in in Joe’s place 😉
Where is everyone?
ReplyDeleteIs it because poor old Joe has been done to death.
Oops 😬 I mean discussed ad nauseam?
Or other things are more important in life than ......?
Stasia 4.22pm.
ReplyDeleteGot it in one!............more important things in life........at least from here! 😉
I wonder with all her money worries, why Emma decided to waste her money on sending Keira for elocution lessons.
ReplyDeleteMaybe because she has realised that people who DON'T speak like Joe or Eddy or Clarrie (or indeed her good self) are far more likely to earn a higher wage?
DeleteI was surprised that Elizabeth broke Ruairi’s confidence by speaking to Brian.
ReplyDeleteHe specially asked her not to say any thing and she has immediately gone behind the lad’s back and told Brian about his desire to know more about his Mum.
I doubt whether he will feel like trusting Elizabeth again.
She could have at least waited a week or two and asked Ruairi again if she could speak about him.
Yay I got a prediction right re Elizabeth confiding in Brian about Rauri and his yearning for more information about his birth mum! Not that it was that unlikely that she would consider doing this!
ReplyDeleteI missed the elocution lessons for Keira bit - was that in tonight’s episode? I did hear “I miss you coming home each night daddy” so maybe .......
Liked the fact that both Emma & Ed allowed themselves to feel loss at Joe’s death because he had been a big part of their lives and they loved him and in fact because he was 98yrs he had been that “forever” for them so a big big loss and it hurts!
Archerphile 10.21 pm Once again I agree with you Archerphile. I did not expect Elizabeth to go straight to Brian. She should have spoken to Ruairi again in a few days and asked him if it would be OK etc.
ReplyDeleteThe chiffchaff is a migratory passerine warbler that winters in Southern Europe , Asia and Africa. What was it doing in Ambridge listening in on Brian and Elizabeth’s chat. It’s warble was certainly loud and persistent which made it difficult to concentrate.
ReplyDeleteMaybe it has decided to stay and say goodbye to dear old Joe.👨🦳🦅
Quite right Stasia! Very lax research by the BBC’s sound effects department!
ReplyDeleteI remember, years ago, it was quite common for listeners to complain that the wrong bird or animal sound had been used, or that a flowering plant had been mentioned out of season or a crop was being harvested too early.
It is very rare these days for people to pick up on such things. Too busy dissecting the latest marital argument or psychological reason for someone’s behaviour! I suppose the majority of listeners are city or town dwellers now and wouldn’t know a cliff-chaff from a parakeet! 😄
Wretched auto-correct - you’d think it would have heard of a CHIFFCHAFF!
DeleteMy bird book says an increasing number of ciffchaffs are overwintering in Britain.
DeleteHow insane to involve Jennifer in all this, she's bound to lose her equanimity. I'm not saying do it behind her back but telling Ruairi he's got his mother's laugh is like laughing in J's face. I hate this storyline but there'll be conflict, so good drama.
ReplyDeleteApart from Basia there is very little interest in tonight’s episode - once again.
ReplyDeleteIs everyone fed up with TA at the moment?
Neil and Hannah seemed to team up well enough to avert trouble from Justin, perhaps they have turned a corner in their working relationship?
Ruairi was obviously very embarrassed that Elizabeth had ‘shopped’ him to Brian, and I’m not surprised. I doubt he’ll confide in her again.
To give him his due, he seemed much more concerned about not upsetting Jennifer than Brian was. I think he’s going to turn out to be a really decent young man.
Jennifer I hope you love Ruairi too and he is not just a duty (after all you both told him he is blameless in the whole debacle.)
ReplyDeleteStill don’t trust Hannah should she ever become boss at Berrow I bet she won’t allow the staff to talk to her the way she does to Neil. A chip on her shoulder imo re job and housing!
Agree blog very quiet of late- at times both in fact🤔
I think Elizabeth was right to tell Brian & Jenny. It would have been irresponsible not to. Ruairi was put out initially but after the conversation with his parents, he was glad.
ReplyDeleteHad to smile a little at E.'s new found wisdom, though - important to talk about how you feel etc.; a dose of therapy & suddenly she's the expert on the emotional needs of others ! Never before have we seen her that sensitive & understanding.
Am finding it an an interesting SL, because of the complex relationships, the ghosts from the past & the affect on Jenny even more than on Ruairi or Brian.
It foreshadows the conversation Jack will be having with his family in 10-15 years time.
ReplyDeleteAnd Henry, it's always the blameless children who suffer.
DeleteMy goodness, how long is it since we heard anything about Henry and Jack?
DeleteThey seem to have been put firmly on the back burner, along with Helen.
Thank you for reminding me about them Maryellen, and I’m sure you are right.
There will be big stories about them in the distant future.
Who is Jack I was asking myself then the penny dropped when I read & Henry!
DeleteWill we be hearing more from George in the near future?
ReplyDeleteLike Keira he also had elocution lessons before he vanished and returned briefly only to vanish again.
Surely it would be better just to speak about the youngsters and then let them speak when they get to the age when actors with the appropriate sounding voices could be introduced.
Do all Ambridge children go through the “ All right “ stage.?
Do you remember how they seemed to be Henry’s favourite words.?
Providing practical care for Ruairi, “That’s my duty”said Jenny. Well, until recently it was only a part time function, as the little boy was packed off to boarding school at about the age of six. It’s seems that the RC school instilled in him the skills of sensitivity and empathy. For his mother and the predicament Jenny faced in accepting and parenting a child that is not her own. What a selfless martyr!
ReplyDeleteCarolyn 8.29
ReplyDeleteIn my view she was irresponsible for telling Brian. She told Rauri she would not do so. thus she has broken confidence, and he may not trust her again.
What she should have done is gone back to him and discussed the issues as she saw them.
In social work terms you never allow anyone to talk to you "in confidence " with out saying that if they tell you something that is dangerous unethical, etc you may have to pass it on. That way a client has choices.Yes they may not disclose at that point but with the building of trust it may well eventually happen.
CowGirl(10.40am), yes, she promised Ruairi rashly but on reflection realized she must tell Brian. I agree, she shouldn't have made such a promise, or at least warned him later why she was going to break her word. He certainly was angry initially, but seemed relieved later, after both B. & J. showed support & understanding.
ReplyDeleteNot only social work, by the way, I found it essential in teaching as well. You have to be straight with people, in that if they tell you something 'secret' that you judge needs to be shared, you will do just that
Elizabeth told Brian she would speak to Ruairi but he pre-empted that, had to be for drama. When Carol first came she told Jennifer she was brave bringing up Brian's lad, his love child, the son she didn't give him, even trying later in life. It's coming back to haunt her, her duty, how ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteAs for Joe, Clarrie gave us the date - 8 November, so some mileage yet.
I had to laugh at my confusion about the elocution lessons, thought I'd missed something!
Being asked to keep secrets is a very dangerous promise to make. Certainly as a professional it something I made clear to patients I could not undertake. But in real life, just as in the Archers it happens all the time in some situations to ordinary people. I know we could could start a debate about the meaning of ordinary, as nothing is ever that when individuals are asked to ‘keep things just between us’.
ReplyDeleteIn fact we had a similar discussion between Eddie and Brian about Will’s job.
DeleteStasia 10.16 am today
ReplyDeleteA couple of years ago Jennifer had a conversation with Peggy about Ruairi and I remember Peggy telling her she was 'a remarkable woman' to bring him into her home. Jennifer made it clear that she resented that she had to do it although she had become very fond of the boy.
Brian has financed and treated equally his two step-children for the past forty odd years; some leeway for her stepchild should be expected.
However it was mostly self interest at that time; as Brian told her that if she didn't take him in he would leave and bring up Ruairi alone. (I think it was when he still had a farm in Hungary and he may have planned to live there.)
Jennifer did get her pound of flesh though in return, because she made Brian divide the Farm and businesses between all the 'children' equally so that Adam and Debbie got a share and that it wasn't all left to Ruairi.
BTW Ruairi went to boarding school at the age of eight. There are no boarding schools (in real life) that take younger children. The subject was much discussed when Rob and Ursula visited and planned to send Henry away!
Thank you Spicycushion. So I was right Jenifer did martyr herself so that her children would get a piece of the pie. You are correct about the school age, I was just saying five a bit tongue in cheek. I wasn’t a listener when Brian was an adulterer.
DeleteSpicy (11.48am), I'd forgotten Brian threatened leaving, if Jennifer didn't agree to take Ruairi on, but have been thinking that J. was in a hideous position if she didn't comply. What would happen to their relationship if she'd refused ? It would never be the same - trust gone, resentments growing. It was different to Brian supporting her children, as he knew that she had a family when he became involved with her. He had a choice, but she didn't. He broke the marriage contract with his wife, & then required her to cope with the fall out, namely, a child, whose mother, his former lover, became terminally ill. So it wasn't pity for the child initially, it was fear of losing all she valued in life - family, their lifestyle, everything she'd built.
ReplyDeleteBefore it all came to light Elizabeth said to Nigel that Brian could never leave Jennifer and Nigel replied, we know it but does Siobhan? Yes, Jennifer told Brian that she'd have to divorce him if he didn't divide the farm between all. There was a time when Ruairi buried a bee and Brian installed a bench in his mother's memory, Jennifer mocked him - to my beloved mistress, whose photograph she saw on entering R's room. Perhaps father and son should have spent more time on that bench in the millenial wood, not good drama though.
ReplyDeleteLet's also not forget that Jennifer had an affair with Debbie's father when he briefly returned to Ambridge, to try to 're-connect' with Debbie (and Adam whom he had adopted) after her marriage to Brian. As far as we know Brian was a philanderer (Betty, Mandy Beesborough and someone else?) but had full on affairs with Caroline and Siobhan . Jennifer wasn't totally faithful either.
ReplyDeleteYou may have gathered I don't like frauds and the way Jennifer portrays herself (or the S/Ws portray her) as an upper class 'county' type annoys me. One grandmother was from the East End of London and the other a lady's maid in the 'Big House' (Arkwright Hall I think it was.) Her father was a failed businessman in several businesses and her mother licensee of the village pub/bed and breakfast hotel.
Jennifer was very lucky in that she managed to net herself two upper class rich men in the 1970s. Many young unmarried mothers at that time didn't!
I caught the end of That Reminds Me on 4Xtra with CH Collingwood talking about The Archers.
ReplyDeleteI cringe when I listen to Jennifer, she's so patronising.
Spicey Cushion 16/10 3:41 P.M. re Jennifer's portrayal of herself you have it spot on. Her grandmother was indeed an East Ender with pobably the worst mockney accent ever. J's elevation is, as you say, from her "netting" 2 rich husbands. A trend started by her mother who likes to portray herself as Lady of the Manor. Sister Lillian somewhat similar trends,
ReplyDeleteYes, both sisters get their social attitudes from their mother, who has always been ' up herself ' and still is.
DeleteYes, they’re common as muck!!
ReplyDeleteAs it is said, "All fur coat but no drawers"
ReplyDelete🤣
DeleteI seem to remember Jack Archer (Peggy’s first husband and father to J & L) was an alcoholic when he was licensee of The Bull and ‘drank all the profits’. Peggy had to run the pub virtually single handed. He was definitely the black sheep of the Archer clan back in those days when Phil worked for Squire Lawson-Hope and Christine worked at the riding school. A great disappointment to Dan and Doris.
ReplyDeleteWhen Jack returned from WW2, according to my TA book, he came back with a mate called Barney somebody, (haven't got the book to hand at the mo) and they both went into business together. One of them was as market gardeners and I think there was another. Anyway Jack and and Barney fell out over Peggy and Jack returned to Ambridge at some time.
Delete(I was listening as a primary school child then so don't remember much but I do remember the name of Barney)
Dan and Doris somehow bought The Bull for Jack and Peggy as Phil was to have the farm. (I assume that Christine had The Stables in her turn.) The Bull is described as a 'substantial building with six letting rooms.' That would be added to the owners' accomodation which housed a family with three children!
They also had various live in barmaids and barmen but they may have had one of the letting rooms.
I have just contacted Joy Horville to let her know that a group of knitters, stitchers and embroiderer are waiting to welcome her on the other blog. She was over the moon with Joy.🧟♀️🧟♀️😬
ReplyDeleteIn The Archers: the Official Companion, edited by William Smethurst (1985), the story goes: Peggy and Jack met and married during the War and she came back with him to Ambridge.”In 1951, she and Jack went to live on Cornwall, where one of Jack’s army pals, Barney Lee, offered them a partnership in a 120-acre farm. The following year, however, they were back - Peggy hotly pursued by an amorous Barney. She got rid of him only to succumb to diphtheria, and spent several anxious weeks in Felpersham Isolation Hospitall, where she worried about rumours of a scandal involving Jack and school mistress Elsie Catcher. Things settled down and eventually she and Jack took over The Bull, and in 1959 were able to buy it when Aunt Laura gave them £4000” etc.
ReplyDeleteStasia 9.26
ReplyDeleteOh no!
What have you done?!
Joy would kill any craft group stone dead - please don’t wish her on us. I’d rather emigrate! 😵
There was one time though when Peggy brought Jennifer down a 'peg', reminding her of her low origins, it may have been after Alice's hasty marriage.
ReplyDeleteYes Basia, your correct, I remember that too, and I think it was because Jennifer was appalled at Alice marrying a Carter of Horrobin origins.
ReplyDeleteHas anyone seen Hilda? Joy will be around when she’s found!
ReplyDeleteUnder Peggy’s bed.
ReplyDeleteIs ‘defunct’ too much to hope for? 🙂
DeleteIn Lynda’s shepherd’s hut.
ReplyDeleteMaybe lured away by someone with a fishy in a little dishy...? 😉
ReplyDeleteOr simply scared stiff by encountering Joy.
ReplyDeleteGary(7.30pm) 😊 I can just hear the unstoppable Joy saying just that, in her accent...
ReplyDeleteAmbridge would be a safer place without either Hilda or Joy.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteOh lord! I was only trying to agree with Ex-Londoner but my iPad went crazy, so, once again
ReplyDelete“Here, here” 😉
Joy is trying very hard to find her role in an established community where everybody seems to know everybody else - and half of them are related.
ReplyDeleteShe'd heard that villages were lovely, welcoming places and she was looking forward to making new friends and being of service to her neighbours.
But so far it seems she's been making all the effort. She'd love someone to drop by or invite her round for coffee but they never do : (
Still, 'Always look on the bright side, as my old Mum would say' - she's building quite a rapport with Peggy, and Kirsty and Philip were glad of her company last week. Perhaps these things just take time ...
Annoying though Joy does sound, I feel a bit sorry for her as she's so desperate to make a friend and fit in. As for Hilda - bye bye.
ReplyDeleteMe too, Anneveggie regarding Joy.
ReplyDeleteIs there a Mr Joy?
What made her move to Ambridge?
Why not move nearer to Rochelle?
She is so over the top that it was no wonder that Peggy had soon had enough of her.
I still think the scriptwriters have made her into a silly caricature .
The answer is for Kirsty with her native Northern sensitivity to have a quiet word with her .
Regarding Hilda-I hope you are wrong and that she was just trying to escape from Joy and is hiding in one .of the bedrooms.
It’s hallowe’en soon and Joe’s false teeth would make a wonderful scary sight, illuminated by the front door with a voice recording of ‘Clarrie luv, have you got the brown sauce?’
ReplyDeleteLJ, Hilda's behind the bed in the back bedroom.
ReplyDeleteI think that if the termagant cat Hilda has met her end, it could be the end of Peggy too!
ReplyDeleteShe has become obsessed with that dreadful animal and will go into a decline if it is found
dead somewhere. Even though she has all her family nearby to support her (unlike Joy) she is one of those very elderly folk who need a close companion, even if it’s only furry, scratchy, nightmare cat. My late brother was exactly the same, totally obsessed by his moggy and he departed this mortal coil shortly after his cat was run over.
As for Joy, I have to disagree with OWiaS - I don’t think Peggy and Joy are building any rapport at all. You could hear how fed up Peggy was when Joy forced her way into the house and insisted on staying, then accompanying Peggy to search for the cat.
She’d had enough of Joy on the night Kate foisted her on Peggy as a ‘babysitter’. If those two ladies end up as bosom-buddies I’ll eat my slippers
Archerphile, I was trying to put myself in Joy's shoes (or possibly new-build shoe).
DeleteIf you asked her, she would say she had a lovely afternoon with Peggy - older people can so often feel lonely, you know. And she's already asked Rochelle to design some Missing Cat posters. Although Peggy was too overwrought last night to give her a photo of Hilda. She'll ask today when she takes over the 'cheer up cake' she's baked. Fingers crossed it will turn into a celebration cake because the dear pussy has turned up safe and well.
She'd probably tell you a lot more too but the doorbell has just rung : )
😉😆😂🤣
DeleteLanjan: 8.46
ReplyDeleteRochelle. Does she really exist or is she a figment of Joy’s imagination? Made up to give her some credulity and someone to talk and boast about. Photos of grandchildren really somebody else’s?
As you say, if she and Rochelle are so close why did Joy not go to live near her rather than miles away in a different part of the country.
I don’t think I shall believe in Rochelle and the two children until they actually turn up in Ambridge to pay Joy a visit!
I'd like to hear Joy talking with Rochelle. At present she's trying very hard to fit in and is probably over-compensating because no-one else seems to want to contribute to the conversation. She'd be more relaxed with her daughter. But would she keep a brave face, 'Yes, I love it here, everyone is so welcoming' or would she tearfully admit she thinks she's made a huge mistake moving to Ambridge and doesn't she'll ever really be welcomed into such a tight-knit community?
DeleteOf course, Rochelle might be as talkative as her mum! Would they each try to keep butting in or just blithelytalk over each other?
I too can see how irritating Joy has been, and agree there is little rapport between her and Peggy, however I agree with OwiaS, Joy is new in the village and is not a wallflower so sees it as her responsibility to get out and about and make new friends, or at the very least become acquainted.
ReplyDeleteYes the SWs are making her a laughing stock, but now doubt in time she will become a regular villager.
As far as Rochelle is concerned, perhaps she too sent her mother packing, but if the daughter and grandchildren are all that Joy has in her life, perhaps some compassion is due.
We do not yet know the back story. In time it may be revealed.
Old Woman, I enjoyed the irony and pathos of your post last night. Spot on that Joy is trying soo hard to find friends in the village and doesn’t pick up on the subtleties and need to take it slowly.
ReplyDeleteWhen Marjorie Antrobus (remember her?) arrived in the village she was also caricatured, as was Lynda, although she often is still of course. It seems to be a thing with new characters - they have to arrive with a bang.
After a week away, may I add some comments??
ReplyDeleteI apologise in advance, if these are irritating, insulting annoying + provoking to many others.
a) Joy has a dark past and sadly Rochelle + the grandchildren are no longer in her life, for whatever reasons. She is sadly, living a dream world. Perhaps she had a nervous breakdown, as a result, and Mr H. bought this house for her, to try to start again. Where is Mr.H?
b) There will be found, a Life Assurance policy or a Building Society "book", long forgotten, in Joe's name which has accrued a massive amount of compound interest, resulting in a substaintial sum of money today.
c) Alf will re-appear and make his peace with Eddie, as they both have lost their Dad.
d) Did Joe leave a Will
e) Has Joe had the original deeds for Grange Farm all along, now proving that He + now Eddie own it outright??
I could go on, but enough is enough, and think I should just.disappear again...
I just needed to have my say.
To add - has Joy just catnaped Hilda - this would not surprise me. She then "finds" her again, to become a heroiene to many.
DeleteI’ll be glad when funeral is over and we can move on to a topic that is less maudlin.
ReplyDeleteLoving joy.....just does not realise she is rubbing folk up the wrong way. Peggy sounded absolutely dumbfounded. 😆
Talking of the funeral, why is it so far into the future? No comment was made about the long wait when Clarrie announced the date. Is it because Alan has to be wheeled in from an extended sabbatical or are we waiting for Shula to qualify?
ReplyDeleteI wasn't paying attention when they mentionned the date. When is it exactly?
DeleteOMiaS says 2 to 3 weeks is about standard for a service at the crematorium, possibly slightly longer in winter when they tend to get busier.
If Joe is have a service at St Stephen's, followed by a burial then it could be quicker, depending on Alan's diary. But you still need time to make all the arrangements, invite people, print the orders of service, etc, etc.
A fortnight at least, nowadays.
DeleteIs it a safe bet that Joy will locate Hilda and Peggy will have to swallow her words?
ReplyDeleteA bit too much therapy for my liking but it was the last session.
I think and hope you will be right,Basia.
ReplyDeleteDidn't i say last night that Hilda had disappeared due to being scared stiff by Joy.
ReplyDeletePeggy confirmed that this evening.
Miriam- I liked your alternatives this evening.
Your A, rounded out my thinking last night.
As far as we know Joe hasn't been to the doctors recently and I believe that if the deceased hasn't seen a doctor within the past two weeks there has to be a post mortem anyway, no matter what age they are, so that would add a week or so.
ReplyDeleteI wondered about a post mortem as his death was unexpected, but I didn’t think it had been mentioned so I assumed it wasn’t happening. They did mention that he’s being buried with his Susan. That possibly needs some sort of permission as she died a long time ago, but I believe Clarrie said Alan has given that as the burial is in a church yard grave. In my experience my relatives have had their funerals within a week of their deaths, a notice in the paper and a few calls to let relatives know. I haven’t heard of orders of service being printed, I rather associate those with weddings.
ReplyDeleteMaybe it varies in different parts of the country but the funerals I and have been to have had an order of service. In our case Katy and I planned it together for Mike’s funeral and printed it out ourselves. We put a photo of him in his mobility scooter with a bob hat saying Ancient Mariner and his trademark cheeky grin on the front. Maybe the Grundies have one of Joe on the cart with Bartleby pulling it on the front of theirs! They are good in having any relevant reading or verse not to mention the hymns or songs written out in one rather than having everyone fumbling with hymn books etc.
ReplyDeletePerhaps it's a local area thing, Ev. We also usually put out a small table of memorabilia - a photograph with one or two items particularly associated with the person who has died, which makes each funeral service truly distinctive.
DeleteMr S had a pic of him absorbed in gardening, with a very fragrant posy of fading roses from his nephew's garden and his mug from our daughter with a cheeky, but very appropriate logo. Beside the table were his green wellies and watering can. Instead of expensive arrangements of cut flowers, said daughter arranged colourful harvest baskets of fresh veg, which were then donated to one of the church organisations.
I also sent one to older friends who couldn’t attend the funeral.
ReplyDeleteI can imagine that’s a lovely way to remember someone and celebrate their life, and receiving it if you weren’t able to attend would mean a lot. Joe would have plenty to symbolise his life that could be included on his.
ReplyDeleteSo Alf has turned up. Cue some interesting speculation about Joe’s will.
Eh up, I’m back on.
ReplyDeleteDull episode tonight till the golden nugget at the end.
How about Alf shacking up with Joy! Now that would be entertaining.
😉🤣
I hadn’t previously thought about Alf in connection with Joe’s will (assuming one exists). Was that the real reason Eddie was so reluctant to notify Alf of their father’s death? And did Clarrie intuit that?
ReplyDeleteThat’s what I’m thinking. Whether Joe had any money to make a will - not terribly likely but we could be surprised. Perhaps Alf and Eddie will be looking under his mattress.
DeleteOld Woman, I think the funeral is in November - either the first or the eighth, I can’t quite remember.
ReplyDeleteThe 8th.
DeleteREAD ALL ABOUT IT.
ReplyDeleteBIG CAT SEEN ROAMING LECKY HILLS.
Do not go near this animal. She can be dangerous.
Contact cat tamer Peggy Woolly on Ambridge 01302 100 💯
🤣🐅😹
DeleteHow about
ReplyDelete1) There never was a Mr Joy -we’ll apart from one time.....
2) Alf has come into ,money and will pay for Joe’s funeral