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Life in Ambridge
THIS POST IS CLOSED "longer off topic comments' - Episode 8 Life Outside Ambridge Beach Chairs
Just caught up with the latest shenanigans in Ambridge.
ReplyDeleteI think I speak for most of humanity with the above image....
Welcome back Gary, you've not missed out on much but were missed here by us.
ReplyDeleteGreat to have you back Gary, didn’t feel quite right without you! Be interested to hear what you think about Lilian’s bombshell and agree totally with the above poster!
ReplyDeleteWelcome back GG, totally agree.
ReplyDelete👍
ReplyDelete✓✓✓ to the poster, & good to see you back, Gary + 2 apt., spot on new headings so soon after your return !
ReplyDelete🤩 😁 😆 Our Gary is back, (so rogue posters beware!)
ReplyDeleteGood header GG - Gavin! 😡😡😡
Back home and on the job immediately, well done GG and thank you.
ReplyDeleteAnd me. ✔✔
DeleteGavin.
DeleteMr Big,maybe.
Dreadful man
Spot on Gary
May I just say?
ReplyDeleteThank-you so much GG, for keeping these two TA pages, so topical and up-to-date.
It is just so wonderful, and very much appreciated, well by me
It means a lot, to have the opportuinity, in making comments, with like-minded persons on various subjects.
Thank-You. 😍
I am starting to warm to Freddie. He seems to finally understand about his past life and what he did. His time at Grey Gables with Oliver + Roy, seems to be giving him a new focus on life.
ReplyDeleteNow:- Can he sort Lily + Russ out?
It might take a while, but think he will finally become his Dads true heir, and so inherit Lower Loxley.
Dreams, sometimes come true 🤣🤣
Freddie was fine with Kate but yesterday he was spying for Ian. I think both Adam and Hugh realised Ian was checking up on Grey gables.
ReplyDeleteI don't condone Freddie. He was just telling Ian, as it is.
DeleteIan is worried that his position will not be the same, as his replacement Hugh, is doing well.
This will be a S/L for the future -in that, can Ian take back his head chef role at GG - when Xander goes into child-care?
All Freddie did, was tell the truth, for once.
Ian is pathetic.
ReplyDeleteHe couldn’t have been confident of his own prowess if he had to “employ” a spy to tell him what was going on.
I would have thought his job was safe anyway because Oliver could hardly sack someone who was on Paternity Leave.
Since Ian obviously didn’t want Adam to know what he had done,Ian then had to lie about the reason Freddie was there.
What a great example to show to a young lad who has not long been out of prison.
As I recall he didn’t want Freddie to work at Grey Gables at first until he realised that Freddie was not above a bit of sneaking .
Hope Adam takes responsibility for Xander’s moral guidance.
As said, this could be a S/L for the future.
DeleteI have to admit though, that I have no idea as to "paternity leave" and its entitled length.
Ian is taking a year away. Is this normal and if so, is he automatically entitled to return to his previous exact work position, as before the birth of Xander.
I do not know.
Am sure someone can explain all, as to Ian's position.
DeleteYou can take as much leave as your employer allows!
Deletebut what about work pay and staturiaty benefits. This is part of what I don't really understand..
DeleteThis is The Archers remember! Real life rules don't apply in any way, shape or form....
DeleteChild benefit will be paid but what else?
DeleteOh have just thought, that Ian + Adam have saved monies - to fund their family for a year whilst Ian is not working.
....unlike many.
DeleteDid you hear a voice during tonight's broadcast saying: this is a travelling picture and something about a bearded Vangogh or was it a part of it, I don't think so somehow.
ReplyDeleteYes I did ,Basia.
ReplyDeleteVery strange.
It happened two or three times.
Lanjan, I'll listen again to see if it's still there.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Freddie didn't tell the truth, he confirmed Ian's lie that he came for a recipe.
He had previously sneaked a look at Shula's memoirs and told Kenton about them.
If Ian wants to know what's on the menu he can look it up online.
On second listening just now, it disappeared, at least it's not a bug in my computer.
ReplyDeleteIs Lynda going to carry on using French every time she speaks?
A Welsman reading an ode to haggis when there is a Scot to help with pronunciation?
Tom and Natasha seem to be 'getting it together'.
Kirsty and Philip 'unmarried' already, they could quietly enter a civil partnership.
Yes, why does Lynda go in for these daft affectations ? But it is quite amusing & she always, without fail, does it more when she's on a mission.
DeleteTwo women, down in the dumps, less than 15 mins. later, all is resolved ! Is life really like that ? Well, I do hope do, for the sake of both those couples. Still, Gavin will continue to be a vicious,greedy, poisonous presence, & Tom & Natasha will continue being stretched in all directions by their numerous enterprises.
ReplyDeleteThanks Gary for your prompt intervention in removing that post.
ReplyDeleteWe're too popular!
DeleteTo be honest, if Kirsty does really love Phillip ,wouldn’t she be better to marry him because otherwise if anything happened to him she could be out on her ear?
ReplyDeleteI know that some heterosexual couples want to have partnerships instead but I have never understood why..
Can somebody explain?
Lilian didn’t want to marry Justin but just live with him.
What is it about Ambridge women?
It doesn’t take a genius to work out that if Natasha is doing a lot of travelling to and from work she is going to be more tired than if she had a base in Ambridge which if they weren’t such a dozy pair would have dawned on both of them ages ago.
She wouldn't be out on her ear, if he made a will favouring her, properly witnessed, of course.
DeleteLots of couples for 30-40 years have opted out of marriage, in the name of freedom, not being tied by the 'bit of paper' & convention. Some changed when they had children, later still, they didn't care about that because society became more relaxed about unmarried couples. Nowadays, I've noticed, marriage has become popular again. Swings & roundabouts, fashion !
Lanjan, some people don't like the idea of marriage, it being patriarchal etc, you can listen to that couple who fought for civil partnership in court, it is personal, that's why I suggested CP because I agree with you. If something happened to Philip Kirsty'd have to fight Gavin but it's up to Philip to provide security for her.
ReplyDeleteWell, I was in and around Basingstoke today and didn’t bump into Natasha - do we think she was telling the truth about her whereabouts? 🤔
ReplyDeleteAs for Kirsty and Phil- I think for her future security Kirsty should marry Phil but it doesn’t have to be a lavish ceremony. Just pop along to the Registry Office, grab a couple of witnesses off the street and Bob’s your Uncle!
At least she would have rights to their house etc if anything were to happen to Phil and she wouldn’t have to be fighting Gavin over any inheritance.
I’m sure her relatives (and Joy) would get over the disappointment of not having a big do to attend.
Thanks Basia ?
ReplyDeleteI remember seeing that couple and just not understanding ,and to be honest I still don’t.
I have in the past known couples who have lived together and had children and not married even though they could (when it was very rare ) and I have felt sorry for the children who had parents with different surnames
Kirsty didn’t even mention a civil partnership though.
I still find it strange .
I find it odd also that Phillip wasn’t sure whether to propose or not and he sounded relieved.
Carolyn,
You are right about the Will but wouldn’t Gavin be able to contest it if they were not married?
It would be bad enough for Gavin if his father married Kirsty and died before her but to leave her the house and possibly more if he were not married wouldn’t go down well.
Is Kirsty actually telling the truth?
Perhaps she just doesn’t want her aunties turning up at a wedding and embarrassing her .
I also think it would be better for Kirsty if she and Philip are married. They can go and do the deed quietly and without fuss. It's quite understandable, given what happened with Tom, that a wedding would make Kirsty nervous. A very quiet wedding or civil partnership (if that gives the same legal rights and I assume it does) is the sensible thing to do in my opinion.
DeleteWhen civil partnerships were introduced here in France it was for same-sex and also heterosexual couples. Mr P & I were originally going to 'Pacser'. Could never understand the UK approach.
ReplyDeletePacte Civile de Solidarité.
DeleteParsley : I believe inheritance rights, are different to those here in the UK. Especially those involving land or family businesses where the entire family of the deceased can have rights to inherit and not just the wife or husband. And after divorce, things can get even more complicated. (Have personal experience of this!) Do ‘Pacser’ couples have the same rights as as married couples?
DeleteThat's reminded me, AP, about the different laws in France & England. Fairly recently, after the death of her husband, a friend had to prove that she & her 2 children were his only heirs, that there wasn't a secret 2nd family somewhere, when she was seeking to put a French property they owned in her sole name. It seemed quite bizarre, & it was very distressing for her until it was sorted out, as the death had been not only recent but very sudden & unexpected.
DeleteI know there are real life cases where wills are contested by the 'natural' heirs, i.e, children of the deceased, but unless they can prove that the will is fraudulent, surely they have no hope of winning the case. Of course, it can also be proved that undue pressure has been brought on a vulnerable person before they died. Philip, however, is of sound mind & body as far as we know, & could easily, with legal advice, write a watertight, valid will, leaving whatever he wanted to Kirsty, & whatever proportion of his estate to the son, just as he would do if he & Kirsty were married. It would be incontestable.
ReplyDeleteAll that depends on whether he has the foresight & care to do this soon, rather than put it on the back burner. We're talking TA here, where, of course, people don't always do the sensible thing, as, indeed, is true in real.life, too.
As I said, it's up to Philip to suggest any legal protection but Kirsty doesn't want to be seen as a gold digger after his money, lots of scope for Gavin to intervene.
ReplyDeleteAgree, lots of scope for the ghastly son to make trouble ! Also agree it's awkward for Kirsty, so it is up to Philip to take care of the future entirely on his own initiative, AND, despite his assertions of 'Sorting Gavin out', I don't believe he realizes how vindictive & vile this man is. No one likes to think their offspring has no redeeming features, after all.
DeleteI wouldn’t be surprised if Kirsty and Phil eventually do decide just to go and get married quietly somewhere as AnneVeggie suggested late last night.
ReplyDeleteI also wouldn’t be surprised to find that Phillip has money worries and is living beyond his means.l
I reckon you might be proved right on both counts, Lanjan.
DeleteOh, unfortunately, you could also be right about Ian's insecurity re Hugh, the fill in chef( other blog, yesterday), but I do hope NOT !! I prefer to think of Ian as being fussy about standards, & above such petty insecurities when he's already established his reputation as a chef.
DeleteI suppose it could be both, because he certainly has shown insecurity in his personal life before,
I think marriage would be the best option for Kirsty. If something were to happen to Phillip Gavin and his mother would be around like sharks..Kirsty wouldn't have a leg to stand on.
DeleteLet's not forget about pensions. .Phillip is a good bit older than Kirsty. .if they were married then she would be entitled to it when he passed away.
When you are married you have rights...otherwise you're changing your luck.
Chancing your luck
DeletePensions - now that is something not mentioned in TA.
DeleteIt is becoming so important now, as to the increasing age of work life + retirement.
Hope none are conduced into the many over 55's life assurance policies or equity release.
DeleteClarrie, should finally get her state pension this year, and about time. It will help the Grundys.
Kirsty and Philip will get married.
ReplyDeleteAlistair will meet someone at the funeral.
The Grange Farm lot will end up at the Bull after they've run out of cider.
One of the above will do.
If Kirsty enters into a legal partnership would she be allowed a widow’s /legal partnership pension should Phillip die before her?
ReplyDeleteIf that is not the case it is ridiculous for any couple in the position to do either not to take the marriage option.
If Alastair does meet someone at the funeral I hope it isn’t a relation of “that man”.
Basia , I think your first suggestion is the most likely of the three ,but who knows?
My first thought tonight was that kirsty would be daft to trust any advice from Helen !
ReplyDeleteA leaky vessel if ever there was one.
I don’t think civil partnerships are available to heterosexual couples in the UK. As to wills, people can leave their money or assets to whomsoever they wish. Family members might inherit over an unmarried partner if no will has been made, but not otherwise. If Philip wills the house to Kirsty she couldn’t be made homeless by Gavin in the event of Philip’s death, if they don’t go ahead with the marriage. If he’s in debt, though, or if there’s a dodgy financial arrangement with Gavin - and when are we going to hear more about why Gavin was looking at his Dad’s laptop - then that’s a different story.
ReplyDeleteOh and it is possible to organise for a pension to be paid to a partner on your death, but how that would work for someone self-employed, as I think is Philip’s situation, I don’t know.
I agree, though, that a quiet wedding might be an option for them. There have been two Ambridge couples who took this option - Helen and Rob, of course but also Alice and Chris.
Situation with wills very well summed up, Seasider. You go on to suggest possible problems in the future, in connection with Gavin, & things are certainly pointing that way. Exactly, what was he sneaking around his father's computer for ? Intriguing storylines festering away here !
ReplyDeleteI believe it has recently been ruled that heterosexual couples CAN have a Civil Partnership now. I saw a news item on TV about the couple who celebrated the first such ceremony just before Christmas.
ReplyDeleteI find it very difficult to understand why a couple should choose to do this instead of a full marriage. I cannot remember what they said in the interview afterwards.
But I hope Kirsty will take some notice of Helen’s advice and perhaps think again about a simple, no fuss marriage ceremony (but not on The Isle of Wight!)
Sorry Ev - reference to H & R, nothing personal ! 🤭)
Actually I think that Helen was talking good sense to Kirsty tonight. They should get married and stop worrying about guest lists etc. etc.
ReplyDeleteI like the funeral trip and the support that both Alistair and Jazzer are giving to Jim.
Lilian came over as a 'dirty old woman' tonight, suggesting a stripper. How tacky.
I don't have a need to understand why couples marry or not, it's a personal choice, & what I don't understand is the compulsion on the blog & by Helen, to get Kirsty & Philip married, however simply, rather than just live together. Financial/property dangers have been exhaustively discussed & the ways Kirsty can be protected in the future.
ReplyDeleteI've known, as I expect we all have, established couples, both married & unmarried & can not distinguish between them in terms of commitment, where it really counts. Some get married later in life, simply because it's better tax wise etc.
Personally, as it looks like both Kirsty & Philip really would like to be married to each other, it would be a good idea to wait a year or so, get the Bali fiasco out of the way, then get married in a registry office & tell friends & family after the event.
ReplyDeleteI have friends who did just that - together since Oxford, aged 20, married secretly when around 50, told us all afterwards, everyone happy, no after shocks or offence caused.
Kirsty’s mother put a spanner in the works when she said the auntie must be invited and if she came another auntie must come too. Thus the guest list gets longer and longer and what started as a modest do becomes a big and expensive event. After the fiasco with Tom no wonder K had cold feet!
ReplyDeleteArcherfile at 10.34 yesterday - no offence taken! The island isn’t exactly the premier place for runaway weddings! At the time was puzzled that they were married in Ryde as our only registry office is in Newport. Poetic licence I guess!
Oh that’s interesting Ev! Bad research by the S/Ws I assume? They probably thought every town has a registry office!
DeleteDoes Ryde have an hotel, large barn or football pitch licensed for marriages, Ev? Seems you can get married just about anywhere these days! Perhaps that's what the SWs were thinking.
ReplyDeleteCivil Partnerships.
ReplyDeleteThe law has now changed and these are available to hetrosexual couples.
Sarnia, yes there are places like this but seem to remember it was a registry office. May be wrong! However, this is not Las Vegas and difficult to imagine it could be arranged during a short holiday!😱😍🥰
ReplyDeleteHo ho - then perhaps they were never married at all!
ReplyDeleteAh that’s interesting about the change in law re civil partnership. I agree with Carolyn that I am not concerned whether Kirsty and Philip marry or don’t. As I said yesterday a quiet wedding is an “option”. What the proposal did was invite us to witness a discussion about their commitment and feelings for one another. I just hope that Gavin doesn’t ruin things between them.
ReplyDeleteAgree with Seasider and Carolyn.
ReplyDeleteThis SL is an investigation into reasons to get married....... or not !
For some, it's the only way, but not for all, and whether to be married or live together is hardly anything new.
And as for the reasons for not marrying, not wishing to conform to patriarchy is often the reason, not ever getting around to it another.
I also think that some people are averse to committment, but not sure that applies to either Kirsty or Philip.
And it doesn't bother me one way or the other if they do or don't.
But it's likely to bother Gavin either way, and some time or other we will find out why.
Now a civil partnership, as opposed to a civil ceromony or a wedding, is now viable for a hetero-sexual couple, is this the route Philip + Kirsty will take?
DeleteAm not sure what the difference between a civil partnership and a wedding is, though. 😣
Gavin is just out for all he can get from Philip.
ReplyDeleteI just don't trust him, both with his wedding + Philips building business.
So far, his fiancee, Kelly? has not appeared..does she still excist, or am I am thinking too much, yet again. 😭😭
If he's bullying dad out of 20k for the wedding, I think she probably exists !
DeleteI am just having doubts - that's all. 😀
DeleteMrs P. (5.10pm), you've summed up succinctly there ! Agree with you & Seasider that the interest now centres round what that Gavin is playing at/for....
ReplyDeleteReply to AP from some time ago.. Neither of us was keen to marry again, 3rd time around for both of us. We changed our minds about PACS because Mr P's pension would not be available to me in the event of his death. Also inheritance options are much more limited. Still more security than concubinage which is recognized here. So we married up at the Mairie followed by a knees-up in the barn.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn’t be surprised if Kirsty and Philip decided to enter a civil partnership, after all Auntie does like to educate us, and this is a recently available option for heterosexual couples.
ReplyDeleteMy thoughts also.
DeleteI suggested a CP but since they want no fuss and Kirsty would like to be married, so they might just as well and tell afterwards.
DeleteYou were so right about Ian, Lanjan, what a miserable, insecure old grouch - couldn't even finish the article about Grey Gables, & so out of sorts that he was unwarrantably rude & touchy with Lee. Tch, tch.
ReplyDeleteOn the bright(er) side, Alistair & Jazzer were simply brilliant with Jim .Hard to live with, though, that the paedophile was such a popular man.
It was a burial not a cremation, I don't know why I find it significant. I said at least the trip would be worth for seeing Fiona but she's on holiday. They were wise to stay after the emotional upheaval.
ReplyDeleteIan saw through Leon, then Rob, what does he really think of Lee?
Do you know something?
DeletePerhaps the crowd of mourners were there for another funeral - or, it’s occurred to me once or twice that Jim might be suffering from false memory syndrome and Harold was blameless.
ReplyDeleteCrossed my mind, too, but only tonight ! However, whilst he may not have recognized the man after 70 years, he would surely never, ever have forgotten the name.
DeleteWhen he saw him at the tea-rooms Jim ran out in horror, so to me there's no doubt that he recognized him. He may have been a very popular member of the community or there were many like Jim, which I had suggested, hence the crowd.
DeleteI had thought that about Jim's memory a while back too maryellen.
DeleteI was wondering about the gender and age of the crowd, who might all have been there for the same reason as Jim!
DeleteStasia has been absent for a while.
ReplyDeleteBootgums has been absent for ages, alas.
DeleteI still find it strange that anyone would want to go to the funeral of a man who had abused him or her.
ReplyDeleteWhat does one say to other mourners who ask how you knew the diseased?
How awful for any relatives who were unaware of their father’s/ grandfather’s disgraceful past if anything were to happen e come out about the dreadful man.
Closure would be to know that the man had died.and could do do more harm.
I am pleased they didn’t attend the funeral.
In total agreement with you Lanjan!
DeleteDid anyone else get a feeling of imminent doom when Jim said he was very tired at the end of tonight's episode.........?
ReplyDeleteYes ! An ominous whisper.
DeleteJim will obviously be both emotionally and physically exhausted and I hope that after a good night’s sleep they can go and visit Housesteads and the whole unpleasant storyline can be.finished.for good.
ReplyDeleteAnd I hope you are correct LanJan and that the three previous comments are not.
ReplyDeleteHere here! I saw this prediction somewhere the other day and chose not to believe it.
DeleteSurely it would be too much of a cliche and a very unwelcome one at that - at least for me.
Is the suggestion that Jim is about to commit suicide? I thought he just wanted a lie down and/or to get away from Alastair and Jazzer for a bit (understandable!)
ReplyDeleteI assumed the predictions were for a heart attack or a stroke rather than suicide.
DeleteDidn't read it that way, more that Jim is ill, perhaps terminally or that dementia could be onsetting.
DeleteI'd be surprised if anyone suspected he was suicidal.
Personally, I'm vaguely bothered that he's becoming physically frail. I haven't spotted any dementia hints.
ReplyDeleteFriday is denouement night, so maybe Jim will pass from our airwaves tomorrow while dosing with his back against the Roman wall and the early spring sun on his face.....
ReplyDeleteSorry, dozing in a sheltered nook, not dosing( perish the thought!’
DeleteLanjan - at 8:23 I think you meant deceased but wrote diseased instead, how very apt!
ReplyDeleteThat was Jim's decision he finally recognised as wrong, it is perfectly possible to remain anonymous at a funeral, especially a big one. This one must have been 'crowd funded' in more ways than one. HJ was ninety, sometimes when there are not many to attend a crowd can be organised on social media, but usually for some worthy people. I was interested in it being a burial, it's more physical somehow, also a chance for exhumation, though I have no idea what for.
Lastly, Jim was obviously emotionally and physically shattered and to me that's all there is to it.
I most certainly do not suspect a suicide. I just felt that the strain of travelling and emotionally might have a tragic effect.
ReplyDeleteYou were not the only one Pierre, there were speculations on Facebook too.
DeleteI’ve got the answer to my question then, no one thinks suicide but several people think natural causes, if at all. Jim may yet join Christine on The Laurels.
ReplyDeleteYes,Basia,I did mean deceased ,thanks.
ReplyDeleteAs you say though he was diseased too.
There is nothing the matter with Jim.
Of course he is tired.
I think he is about the same age as I am and I would want have gone to my room after such a day so that I could have a good night’s sleep possibly after a glass of whisky and the reading of a good book .
At our age, some of us like a bit of peace and quiet.
We don’t always want people ,even our nearest and dearest. all the time.
Solitude can be lovely.
Years ago an aunt would not meet my sister and me together because she said we exhausted her!
Is Jim suicidal-definitely not.
Why would he be?
Is Jim suffering from dementia?
Definitely not.
Donation to my favourite Charity if I am wrong.
Sorry I didn’t add that I don’t think that he is about to have a heart attack either.
ReplyDeleteThe script writers are younger than Jim and may not know what it is like to be that age .
I will be absolutely furious if he does have a heart attack or stroke.
ReplyDeleteHope he doesn’t or my blood pressure might increase.
There was of course the 'food poisoning' at NYE, but it was just that to create competition against Lynda. Maryellen, why the Laurels, if Jim has Alistair and Jazzer living with him plus the new extension, if anything happened I'd expect them to care for him.
ReplyDeleteHe might need ‘proper’ nursing care 24/7 which A and J can’t provide.
DeleteI would be furious too, Lanjan ! Unfortunately, it is the kind of cop out the SWs might hit us with. I sincerely hope not.
ReplyDeleteI know the word 'journey' is over used, but Jim's shock, his ups, downs, struggles to recover have been, imo, rather well done & believable. Even just now, he had to go to the funeral, if only to discover that he couldn't face it when he saw the number of people attending. So he's left having to cope with knowing the man is dead, there is no redress for him or anyone else who was abused, that the man was even liked & respected locally. Jim is not a weak character, he has good support from son & friend, even from Shula, more distantly, so he has every chance of moving on, continuing his life doing the things he likes ( good plan to visit an interesting site after a rest overnight), perhaps a wiser & more emotionally balanced person than he's ever been in his adult life before.
That's how I would like it to play out !
So much of this business doesn’t ring true to me.
ReplyDeleteFirstly,why would an abuser turn up uninvited at somebody’s party?
Surely since he had got away with the abuse for so long he would not want to be found out now.
Secondly,if there were a great many people at the funeral service and presumably they were not there for the same reason as Jim, why were they there?
Does it not imply that this man was well liked ?
On the other hand were those people there for the same funeral ?
Could it have been that the people were still chatting from a previous funeral?
Somebody wondered if Jim had got the right man.i imagine he would not have forgotten his name so I assume he had got the right person.
This happened over 70 years ago or thereabouts .
Was Jim the only boy he abused?
Sounds unlikely .
Does a leopard change its spots?
Did the man see the error of his ways, get treatment and become a pillar of the Community?
He is dead.
Now let Jim get on with his life and as he walks along Hadrian's Wall in this weather let him wonder as I did how on earth the Romans put up with a northern English winter .
LanJan - you make false memory syndrome seem increasingly possible. We have no evidence other than Jim”s account, since Harrison’s investigation didn’t go anywhere beyond establishing Harold had died (not surprising when all the police had to goon was a vague, secondhand accusation of historic abuse made by Jazzer on behalf of ‘a friend’). However, I don’t think the scriptwriters are likely to take on the complications of false memory syndrome. and I hope they wrap up this unsatisfactory storyline one way or another.
DeleteI think the Romans also wondered why they had fetched up at this god forsaken place !
DeleteThe Romans cannot have thought it was that bad, as there are many Roman Cities here.
DeleteThey were focused on. conquest, so they put up with it, but it's on record that they hated it.
DeleteMiriam’s point is a good one. The promise of land and/or a living in a hostile climate was better than no land or living in a pleasanter one. I believe many of the Roman troops on the Wall came from territory conquered by Rome in Southern Spain.
DeleteExactly the point I was making - conquering the known world was more important than comfort.
DeleteAdd to that, they soon established civilized living as far as they could, roads, towns, villas, under floor heating ! They even managed to Celtic gods with their own... an adaptable & long lasting empire; why, they even took on Christianity & converted the heathens !
'managed to merge.. '
DeleteJim to me is not suicidal, about to have a stroke or similar.
ReplyDeleteHe realised that actually attending the funeral, was not necessary after all. He has now put things into perspective, after his awful memories became prevalent again, at his birthday bash.
He can now move on, and the extension sounds interesting.
I found this S/L interesting. I think people can have different sections of their lives with later connections seeing a different person than earlier connections. I say this because someone I know had an awful shock at her second husband's funeral (he was in his 70's). She had never met his first family with whom he had parted company long before she met him, but she felt she should notify them of his death even though he never saw them. His daughter turned up, and she told his wife she had come to make sure he really was dead, and of how she had endured sexual abuse from him when a little girl. It would seem from details given, plus the emergence of some verifiable lies he had told, that it was true. Those few of us whom his shattered wife shared this with found it very very difficult to believe it of such a seemingly nice man.
ReplyDeleteWhat a grim story, but not hard to believe. Have heard of several shocks like this, emerging from first families after a funeral.
DeleteJim felt compelled to attend the funeral, perhaps in his subconscious he wanted to make sure the man was dead, although as you said earlier Carolyn, having no redress is a great weight, as Jim said, that HJ had won.
DeleteWhat a superb outcome ! Very good for both Jim & the other man.
ReplyDeleteI said at the time when Jim announced his intention that he might meet fellow sufferers, pretty obvious really, where else would they go with it. The story told by Janice confirms it.
ReplyDeleteYou did, Basia, I remember. Whether Michael gets in touch later or not, the encounter did both of them good, in very important ways.
DeleteInteresting to read all the above comments immediately after listening to this evenings episode.
ReplyDeleteI have not for one moment in the last few months thought that this SL was anything other than possible, realistic in every possible way, and handled extremely well by the TA team. Another social problem handled with care and sensitivity.
I shall now look with interest at the comments arising from this evenings episode.
I do not think this SL is over.
I hope you are wrong,Mrs P.
ReplyDeleteI cannot see any point in prolonging it.
It could be prolonged, particularly if Michael does get in touch ( perhaps he & Jim would even start a self help group) but however it pans out, seems to me Jim is over the worst now. He knows for sure now he wasn't the only boy, & that poor man had a worse time, & it has affected his life more drastically than it did Jim's. It awoke his compassion & gave him a perspective he hadn't had before.
DeleteWhat a beautifully constructed and written episode - was it Keri Davis by any chance?
ReplyDeleteThe conversation between Jim and Michael was very moving.
And it looks like Josh may get his come uppance at last.
Superb writing and acting in the scene between Jim and Michael. Don’t you think Michael sounded awfully like Leonard? Was it same actor with different accent? I don’t think there is anything wrong with Jim, just that he was emotionally drained and stress can make you very tired. Maybe Harold went to Jim’s party as he wanted to apologise after all those years having become a pillar of his community hence the turnout at his funeral. Just speculating but I have always wondered about his motivation.
ReplyDeleteI felt this was a very positive episode for Jim; meeting Michael confirmed that it wasn’t only him, in no way was it his fault, that he had still managed to have a “good life “ (as perceived by by others) and that he was able to help someone else to some degree.
ReplyDeleteArcherphile, I agree that Josh could be finding himself in hot water pretty soon. It is looking like he has been failing to carry out basic checks.
....maybe most of his machinery will turn out to be stolen goods, sold to the gullible young son of Mr David Archer !
DeleteI too thought it was our favourite Yorkshireman deepening his voice.
ReplyDeleteAgree the acting and direction all superb.
The possibility of a self help group arising from this encounter occurred to me also Carolyn.
To initiate and lead such a group would give Jim a worthy purpose in which he could direct his passion and help others towards the closure that he has sought for himself.
Jazzer has developed as a character over the years and his recent concerns for Jim and his passion regarding the treatment of Jim as a child would give him too an opportunity to develop further under Jims tutelage by becoming Jims right hand man.
I would very much welcome the further extension of this SL believing that The Archers is a sound vehicle for the dissemination of such subjects to the wider public.
We, the public have seen and hopefully understood the devastation wrought by the high profile individuals who have used their popularity amongst the public to hide their crimes. But there are many who appear to lead ordinary lives yet manage under the cloak of familiarity to continue to abuse children and young people.
Given our collective life experience there must be several amongst us who have known people like Jim.
I also thought this a very well written episode which brought a more positive aspect to the sad story of Jim's abuse. He has helped a fellow victim and may well hear from him again but, even if he doesn't, he can be sure that he supported the man who may well now follow Jim's advice to confide in his wife.
ReplyDeleteHow ghastly to think that we may well know or have known abusers in our lifetime. The poor sufferers never forget as Michael said. I have to add that I do hope that the poor girls abused in Yorkshire and elsewhere in the UK get justice.
For me, Janice’s short post was far more telling than this multi- episode storyline with its contrived twists like last night’s episode which I sincerely hope is the last we hear of it, and the last we hear of Jim Lloyd and his comic side kick for a good few months. I’m not denying it was a worthwhile topic to pursue but I think they chose the wrong characters to pursue it with. ,Maybe it was another case of characters in search of a storyline...
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed last nights episode. It showed a different side to Jim....a caring one....that is more normally hidden.
ReplyDeleteI do hope this storyline is over though as it has brought enough reminders, no doubt, to people that will have suffered like Jim.
We hear enough of this kind of stuff in the papers and on the news.
Let’s get back to some proper Archers farming storylines now....after all lambing will be starting soon. 🐑
Jim was the best possible choice for that SL. Who better, in fact ? It's had a beneficial cascade effect on Alistair & Jazzer as well. For Jim, I see it as the release of his emotional life, now allowing him to be in his later years the rounded individual he should have been had the early abuse not happened.
ReplyDeleteIt didn't happen overnight, this emotional expressiveness, but was starting to develop when he supported Alistair after Shula dumped him, followed by a better relationship with Shula later.
Pretty sure I've offered the view in the last paragraph before, but excuse is that it shows how well the 'Jim Story' has been worked out, & handled in an utterly satisfying & believable way.
PtbY, we haven't had lambing yet, but we have had Rex being brave & taking his pigs to be slaughtered, so a nod in the direction of farming ! Though, admittedly, that was highlighted to forward a Josh SL about buying stolen machinery.....
ReplyDeleteI am with you 100% ,P tbY 7:48am.
ReplyDeleteYou are spot on.
Not everyone who has been abused in childhood will be feeling like Michael.
Some people will have successfully put the abuse to the back of their minds and it is only when it is mentioned again in programmes like this that it comes to the forefront of their minds.
I cannot tell you how angry it makes me.
What good is it going to do?
I ,like others,,listen to The Archers to be entertained not to be told that there is a dedicated ‘phone line to contact should I need to.
Most of their perpetrators will be dead by now.
I thought the episode was handled sensitively .
Jim has offered his help.
Michael knows he was not alone .
Let that be the end of it.
I personally think this story line has been of great value.
ReplyDeleteIt gives an insight into the traumas that people go through , it demonstrates that there is benefit , however late in life to open up about the past.
The fact that there were so many people at his funeral demonstrates how we can all be fooled by seemingly nice people, from all walks of life .
Some very prominent in the welfare of children too have been outed.The Director of social services, who was imprisoned and a government advisor on Child care, who turned out to be a peodophile, much to the embarrassment of his fellow experts.
Whilst there may be some who have been abused and listened have found it difficult, I am sure that there are many more who may have benifited. As Janice herself says, sometimes its hard to believe that that "nice man" is an abuser.
Lanjan, as much as I'd like it to end here, I fear not, but as I said before, at least we didn't go through it in 'real time' which would have been much worse.
ReplyDeleteWe will agree to differ,Cowgirl.
ReplyDeleteWhat about all the people who have successfully put the trauma behind them only for them to be reminded of it by this storyline.?
We don’t know that all the people at the funeral were people that he abused.
The editor has made the point.
It is time to move on.
What good is prolonging this going to be?
RT lists Paul Stonehouse is the actor playing the Michael character.
ReplyDeleteTrauma is never 'successfully put behind one' it remains hidden by the subconscious in many, but reverberates in aspects of a personality and sometimes in actions towards others.
ReplyDeleteIt is an accepted fact that abuse in childhood particularly within the family structure, often results in the victim becoming an abuser themselves, thus perpetuating the abuse into and beyond generations. And even if the victim does not grow into a sexual abuser themselves they are often cold and indifferent to the emotional needs of their children. We have seen with Jim that he had built around himself an impenetrable wall of stoic
resistance to all opinions other than his own. This was his coping mechanism and probably had been so for a very long adult life.
We have probably all known in our lives ' difficult ' individuals who refuse to fit in, as we may well have known worn down passive individuals who have cloaked themselves in anonymity to hide away from harsh realities. These are coping mechanisms within personality types, and surely when we meet such people we sometimes wonder what made them so ?
Abuse comes in many forms and I consider it brave and encouraging that the Archers team have chosen to highlight this one aspect of the effects of abuse.
I hope that in time we will see a somewhat modified but still strong Jim, a Jazzer who has learned to consider with extreme empathy an older man that he can admire and look up to and Alistair who can continue to forge a far more loving relationship with his previously cold and unreachable father.
I suppose it is encumbent upon me to say that I do not have any interest in being entertained by the Archers or much else.
Informed, enlightened and stimulated is enough for me.
Amen to that, Mrs P, and the more closely you have to live with someone else's 'coping mechanisms', the harder it is.
DeletePhoenix at 11.50. Thank you for info about Michael. It’s so interesting the similarity between voices! IMO for what it’s worth I feel that the airing of these problems whether in fiction like TA or in reality can be good in helping victims to come forward and because of this openness children are believed now where they weren’t listened to years ago. The danger of course is false accusation but it all needs to be balanced.
ReplyDeleteI have just read all your many thoughts, about last night's episode.
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed it, and felt pleased that Jim met another, who "knew" Harold, in the same way.
I hope that this will help Jim, and he realises how lucky he is with Jazzer + Alistair.
I think though, that Michael will appear, in time.
but then perhaps not.... as Paul Stonehouse is a voice over actor, so perhaps not destined for a more prominent TA appearance, but who knows.
DeleteI do hope this S/L is firmly CLOSED. There are many others to go forward.
So - Josh and his business might not be a great as seemed, but don't care about him 😣
ReplyDeleteWhat does concern me, is how this will affect The Brookfield Wedding Venue?
I would also, love to here the new residents in No.1 The Green, as to, who they are and how are they living. It's part of Ambridge Life.
I think you outline the situation with any sort of PTSD very clearly, Mrs P, & it certainly is by all accounts, very tricky to treat effectively, but I don't see how anyone can be totally sure that no one gets over something like that pretty much by themselves, helped perhaps, by changes in circumstances, & by mature, intelligent self examination over the years.
ReplyDeleteI've known instances of individual successes.
It is, of course, undeniable, that coping strategies can impact heavily on those close to a traumatized person, but there is a general point to make, as well, I believe. It is that we all, from the moment we are born, start using coping strategies because of the bewildering world we enter ! So many contradictions, conflicting expectations, none of us are totally sane, I maintain. We all have our 'little ways', which others have to put up with.
I realise it's all relative, & whilst it is not a particular problem to put up with someone who has an insect phobia, or who always double/triple checks they've locked the door, as examples, it is very different enduring the extreme manifestations of coping behaviour ( as the fictional Jim & Michael are well aware of, not only the affect on themselves but the affect on those close to them)
If it seems that I am in denial that anyone can overcome the trauma without any intervention, then of course I was misleading Carolyn. It was not my intention to be so.
ReplyDeleteYes of course with a great deal of reflection and understanding along with acceptance of what has happened it is possible for someone sexually abused as a child to come to terms with such an event and lead a normal and fulfilling life.
But even then the experience will have left its mark.
It is not always distressing if that experience is brought back to memory when triggered by similar events made news.
I clearly remember sitting with my close friend and her mother when the mother was in her eighties and a recent news story similar to the current SL in TA was in the news.
She sat and told us how her father had abused her, and how she had accepted at the time that what was happening to her was wrong and painful, but that uppermost in her mind throughout the years that it was going on, her intention was that it would not happen to her little sister. That protecting that sister was of the utmost importance.
She clearly felt even then decades later that she had done the right thing by her sister, and was able to tell her daughter and myself that she had learned to understand and accept what had happened and had managed to lead a normal life, to marry and raise half a dozen children and nourish and support her family.
But it was also clear that she had never forgot the abuse, nor the effect it had upon her, and was able to express her positive feelings about how today society was able to speak about such events and reveal truths.
This was at least thirty years ago, and far more has been revealed over the years.
As Ev has said, the greatest outcome from such Public profiling is that today, children are believed and such behaviour is not so often hidden from view.
I suspect it went on and is going on more than most of us would believe. Thank God for outlets such as Childline which has done so much in this field.
ReplyDeleteArcherphile, you were right, it was Keri Davies this week.
ReplyDeleteI said Grange Farm would end up at the Bull but it was the other way round.
Kirsty and Philip will get married now, which is what we largely predicted.
I'm glad for them. Kirsty might even still be able to have a baby. That would really put Gavin's nose out of joint.
ReplyDeleteI didn't quite know what to make of Philip saying that because of the extra orders for work coming in they would be able to afford a holiday. Either he has completely cleaned himself out giving Gavin money for his wedding, in which case he shouldn't have, not when he had proposed to Kirsty and would have needed something for their wedding ; or Kirsty was right in interpreting his worry as meaning that he didn't have the funds to help Gavin. Something doesn't add up.
I"m not here much but just would like to say - very moving - well done Jim, Jazzer and Alastair.
ReplyDeleteA most involving and loving trio
Kirsty and Philip sounded so happy at the end of tonight's episode.
ReplyDeleteAnd well done to those who forecast an ' away day ' wedding.
I do hope it happens that way after all.
It's always nice to here from you Janet, however infrequently.
Thank you for telling that story of 30 yrs. ago, Mrs P. It says much that is admirable about your 80+ yr. old friend, what a strong well balanced woman she had become, able to reflect calmly to the next generation on what had happened, having lived a full.life. The story also speaks of the difference between remembering with pain, & remembering at an emotional distance from that pain. We know that memory is selective, but people can't ever forget the strikingly bad or strikingly good things that have happened to them ( though there can be distortions, I'm sure !), and in this case, it does come across that what had happened had been accepted, not condoned or whitewashed, certainly not, but relegated firmly to the past, whilst the lady herself mainly lived healthily in the present.
ReplyDeleteAgree with others, of course, thank goodness that there is more accessible & knowledgeable help available these days.
A pretty good offering sll round tonight ! Just for once, grudgingly (!), have to acknowedge that Helen was right to prod Kirsty on what she really wanted, & it was good to hear that they will.get married in a way that suits them both & cuts out all the angst of arranging a public wedding.
ReplyDeleteAlso pleasing that the Grundys won on Burns' night. All very jolly, if decidedly flat at the 'B'. Nice touch with Emma, starting her new job there ( glad Kenton won that point at least), remembering Nic had worked there before, & feeling sad.
Just wish to add that I also found the Jim Jazzer & Alistair sl sympathetic & moving, & potentially helpful. Always listen on catch-up so a bit late in the day..
ReplyDeleteWhat a lovely end to the week and, even better, being able to listen in bed at home instead of hospital!
ReplyDeleteDelighted that Kirsty and Phil are going to take the advice of some of us and have a quiet, private wedding with no fuss and bother. Wonder what has happened about Ghastly Gavin’s plans for Bali though?
And even better, The Grundy’s anti-b@ambridge ploy worked and people boycotted The Bull’s Burns night shenanigans for their do instead. I hope that will help convince Jolene (if not Lilian) that the name change is unwelcome to many regular customers and is not going to Enhance their business at all.
If Justin (for it was he that arranged the ‘consultant’ visit) wants to run a modern, trendy eating/drinking place, let him buy an empty shop in Borchester to tart up, and leave The Bill alone.
I am loving this on/off wedding of Kirsty + Philip but still not sure it will happen.
ReplyDeleteI think Gavin is still doing a type of emotional "blackmail" as to his Mum's, so-called, situation.
This has made me wonder - a)does Philip still speak to her - so compare notes.
b)if so will the stories be the same.
I also want Kirsty to receive an engagement ring, sooner rather than later.
I hope the SW are not playing with us regarding last nights happy episode. Will Phil & Kirsty be “allowed “ their secret wedding when push comes to shove?
ReplyDeleteHope The B thing is sorted soon, changing just the name will not be enough for Justin that’s for sure. Maybe they plan for the refurbishment to go wrong and like many villages will lose its pub 🙏🏼 not!
Ambridge without The Bull, is just unthinkable.
DeleteNote:- to me the name has to remain the same.
A name change does not mean a different pub. It's the business + what's on offer, which is most important. Just Wake-up Lilian + Jolene (+Wayne who is the restaurant manager).
They can surely utilise the upstairs room more, to get a much better viable income.
Why not call it:-
The Scruff Inn
The Borsetshire Blue
The Lily (after Lilian?)
The Jolly Place (after Jolene).
These are all Very tongue-in- cheek, as are as equally ridiculous, as The B in AmBridge. 😭
What is Justin's claim as to The Bull and its future, so can interfere? He surely has enough to keep him busy with Demara, Borchester Land, Berrow Farm etc. so why is he is he so interested in The Bull all of a sudden - I don't understand it.
✔️ Agree Miriam
DeleteI still think the The B in Ambridge would be witty (but then I’m a sucker for wordplay) and I can imagine an interesting challenge for the inn sign and interior designers, featuring the things that begin with the B in Ambridge eg. Bull, Bat (as in cricket) cheese (as in Borsetshire Blue), historic Barn (as in theatrical and wedding venue), Bees (as in Jill’s honey), Bottle (as in Scruff gin), Bartleby, and so on. I’m sure the locals would love it as much as I would!
DeleteI like those ideas🙂 Could be a totally Ambridge themed pub. Good for the various 'B' businesses too. Can't see the locals showing much interest, though, as they just pop in for a pint, a natter & gossip, not the slightest bit interested in observing changes or references. Can anyone imagine Will or Ed seeing, let alone remarking on, cricket bats fixed to the walls, or posters of cheese ?
DeleteStill, if the objective is to attract ousiders, which it seems to be, it could well be an effective way of bringing in more customers, without actually bothering the regulars at all, as they wouldn't really notice !
I was thinking of something more sophisticated than posters stuck to the walls, eg a painted frieze or alcoves in a sympatheticand/ or style, even incorporating some recognisable faces. I can’t think of any reason why the regulars wouldn’t notice the changes in the inn sign and decor, especially ones with such immediate relevance to them, and the passing trade would be charmed. Sadly, it will only happen in my imagination.
DeleteMy point wasn't to do with imaginative designer ideas, but how Ambridge themed decor might impact differently on locals & outsiders. However, can see how even Will, Ed, Jazzer et al would notice if local characters were featured, &, yes, I can see how your ideas, amusing & cleverly incorporated, could go down well with all customers. Despite the caricature of an interior designer we've seen, if they do go down your route, Maryellen, this could be a great success ! But, as you say, will the TA creators have the flair to think like this, & carry it through ?
DeleteCleverly thought out maryellen!
DeleteAlso beginning with the ‘b’ in Ambridge are Bartleby, Brookfield and Borchester Land and Bert the Bard, perhaps shown wearing a ruff in homage to the other Bard reputed to have stayed at The Bull at the turn of the 16th century..... Sorry, getting carried away here!
DeleteI don’t get Justin’s interest either. If I haven’t missed something his only claim is Lilian’s share in the business. Like your choices, Miriam. Much better than the B!
ReplyDeleteRe name changes.
ReplyDeleteI still refer to friends I knew when I was a girl by their Christian names and maiden surnames.
Does anybody else?
Yes, I do, but mostly because I have lost touch with most of them since those days and have no idea whether they have married or changed their surnames.
DeleteI have tried to locate my best friend from school on Facebook but it’s impossible without knowing her present surname (of course, she might just not be a subscriber to FB).
The reason I mentioned name changes is that whatever they decide to rename The Bull.many folk will still call it by its original name.
ReplyDeleteIn the village where I grew up,The Bricklayers Arms became The Cherry Tree.
I wonder if anyone old enough to remember when that happened still refers to the pub by its original. name?
I like it when the names reflect the history of their place, as in The Mill because it was once a working mill, and the Port William because boats once unloaded their cargos in the little bay. Lose the names and the history is lost to memory.
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely agree.
DeleteIs The Bull called The Bull because the village stud Bull was stabled there or has that bit its history already been lost to memory, I wonder.
DeletePerhaps because the Earl of Ambridge had a bull on his coat of arms? 😉
DeleteGreetings to all on a wet and windy day.
ReplyDeleteI have made an apology on the other blog.
I have been listening to the archers and agree with many of the comments about renaming the Bull to the letter B.
Jim neatly making his bed in the hotel I interpreted as a metaphoric expression of tidying up the fallout from his abuse, a sort of going back to the more boring normality of getting things done.
I think Kirsty and Philip will marry and then ructions will happen. Will it involve the police, money laundering, some sort of criminal activity involving Gavin and Philip going bankrupt. Who knows?
I have missed you all.
On listening to the omnibus this morning, Clarrie made a very good point.
ReplyDeleteThe Grundy's alternative Burns Night had to be a one off. As she pointed out, if the regulars no longer had a local pub - where would they go? Walking back from PennyHasset was mentioned.
What wise words.
Besides, she would not want to repeat that cooking again.
The on/off wedding and the now holiday/honeymoon, seems dependant on Philips future work. It could be well in the future, after he has emptied his piggie banks, to pay for Gav's.
DeleteAlso, where in Ambrdge, will Natasha be able to re-locate her press, her offices, uniting it with the BridgeFresh business etc..How will she finance it - more debt?
Something is going to happen after Wednesday and Gavin’s photograph appears in the new spare.
ReplyDeleteMmn....I wonder who the 'we' consist of in Fiona's Tenerife holiday ? A group of friends ? One other person ? A budding romance for hardworking academic daughter ? Presumably, we'll find out if anything or nothing this week !
ReplyDeleteLanjan - How do know, I thought you didn't like spoilers.
ReplyDeleteIt's the third time Fiona has turned up unannounced, it's becoming a habit.
I don’t know, Basia but it was when it was said that Gavin’s photograph was going to be in the newspaper (not the new spare as appeared in my earlier post) I thought someone is going to recognise him.
ReplyDeleteWhy Wednesday?, I don't recall the day his photo would appear in the paper.
ReplyDeleteOff to listen again, to find what I missed.
Lanjan - Yes, I understand now, the re-opening of the playground (very fast work) is on Wednesday and someone from the Courier is coming to take a photograph, Philip is pleased for himself and Gavin, so you are right, I expect trouble from him.
ReplyDeleteYes, it's looming all right, trouble/scandal around Gavin, which is going to affect & damage his father in some way. The couple's happiness is being highlighted to set the scene & make for dramatic contrast. Very curious to see what it is about !
DeleteI expected Philip to say he couldn't do it. But instead he said he would be delighted.
ReplyDeleteThis surprised me, since I thought he would be wary of being shown in the local press.
( because of the suspicions on here )
I then thought that perhaps we would here that Gavin has refused to be seen when press photographers were present.
We have of course three days to hear one way or the other.
Couldn't something just happen normally in Ambridge for once , without there being some twisted plot development behind it?
ReplyDeleteWe really are becoming a very suspicious lot of listeners, never able to accept any little occurrence or conversation for what it is, without seeing something nefarious behind it!
I include myself in this accusation occasionally, but really, some people are never going to let go of their suspicions of Philip. It’s becoming tedious.